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[HA Dave]

Pretty amazing to think that in order to buy a standard appliance these days, one must first add a notification to their HA setup for 2:14AM on August 29.  But then, since everything is moving forward we must just learn to adapt.  I am sure some of us will be unable to comply, but that's just the way the future is.

I once knew a man who told me how he resisted the idea of SLICED BREAD. No joke! Sliced bread, has been around for less than a century. The first automatically sliced commercial loaves were produced on July 6, 1928.

But even though many (if not most) people who lived in the city's had already taken to buying "bakers bread" instead of baking their own. For many having the bread pre-sliced and put in a bag... was that one step TOO FAR.

It's a long sleep-inducing story about how human brains work that explains why we REALLY resist change (AKA: progress). And training to recognize such things... requires more than a little effort. But.. at least we're buying sliced bread... right?

Just imagine those farmers from 2-3 generations ago... who could produce EVERYTHING needed to fuel plow horses... yet invested in iron machines that required fuel shipped in from who-knows-where.
 

[brobin]

Sadly Dave, you missed the entire point of my post.  All I'm saying is that I don't want an expensive appliance to become prematurely obsolete because the manufacturer decides to figuratively pull the plug from afar (i.e. IRIS from Lowe's).  My fridge, washer, dryer and dishwasher don't need any input from me or the cloud. I set the temp on the fridge the day it arrived and press the start button on the others.  Now if AI can actually LOAD the washer, dryer and dishwasher and put things away when it's done, I'll sign right up! AI is great - just watch who you're buying it from. And cloud based doesn't equal AI. AI learns and figures things out. A lot of cloud based services have nothing to with AI.

[Brian H]

Lets not also forget.
A manufacturer decides to do an automatic firmware update and BRICKS the device. So bad it can not be easily fixed. I saw a reference to a bunch of Google speakers being bricked by an automatic update and they didn't want to repair them if out of warranty. That they quietly changed their minds. 

[Tuicemen]

Dave you probably already have several servers running in your home and don't even realize it or making full use of them. What many of us wish to do is make better use of our existing (at home) servers to be less reliant on big brother.

[petera]

Pretty amazing to think that in order to buy a standard appliance these days, one must first add a notification to their HA setup for 2:14AM on August 29.  But then, since everything is moving forward we must just learn to adapt.  I am sure some of us will be unable to comply, but that's just the way the future is.

I still reckon that low tech solution I mentioned to you would solve your dilemma and provide you a lifetime of satisfaction. Just make sure you can provide the extra amperage required if the device starts playing up.

[brobin]

You must be far more prosperous than myself. I mean... sure I have a generator and I could muster-up an in-home server. But to live as a one-man island 24/7 would require some serious cash.

Prosperity has nothing to do with it and it's unlikely that FPL (my power provider) will go out of business any time soon. I'm not sure why you'd conflate industrial/commercial cloud services with consumer product support.  A $5 Pi Zero is a server as is my 20 year old Stargate. One of the differences between the Smartenit Harmony P2 and C2 is that the C2 can be a server for cloudless local control.  If I remotely control my garage door through my Stargate, I'm connected to my own server but if I use the MyQ app I'm reliant on the manufacturer's cloud server.  When MyQ arbitrarily prevented an Alexa skill from working I could no longer use Alexa with it.  With Alexa I'm still using the cloud but I think Amazon has quite a vested interest in keeping that alive and robust for the foreseeable future.  It's not that the cloud is 'bad' or 'scary' - to the contrary, it's not - it's that the companies offering the services may not do so responsibly.  Caveat Emptor!

[HA Dave]

Dave you probably already have several servers running in your home and don't even realize it or making full use of them. ....

Actually as a former (retired) network administrator on one of the most secure networks on the planet.... I'd bet I have a much greater understanding than you think. 

But every coin has at least two sides.... and dice have SIX. This isn't a binary problem... and it isn't a technology problem. This is likely more an issue about control... with a little reflection of future shock. All the MANY sorted arguments I've read here about why current new technologies should be avoided move, dodge, and morph. Because the end result isn't (and doesn't) solve problems. The solutions always ONLY avoid the fear of a lack of control. But avoiding tech... is never a real solution.

[HA Dave]

.....I'm not sure why you'd conflate industrial/commercial cloud services with consumer product support.

You ask me the above.... like you actually believe these things exist in totally different universes. Then you post:  A $5 Pi Zero is a server as is my 20 year old Stargate.

Your logic seems to be a moving target.

IfI use the MyQ app I'm reliant on the manufacturer's cloud server.  When MyQ arbitrarily prevented an Alexa skill from working I could no longer use Alexa with it.  With Alexa I'm still using the cloud but I think Amazon has quite a vested interest in keeping that alive and robust for the foreseeable future.  It's not that the cloud is 'bad' or 'scary' - to the contrary, it's not - it's that the companies offering the services may not do so responsibly.

Yes! Every grown-up knows.... we can't know the future. But we'd be foolish to fear it. 

Caveat Emptor!

Yeah. Or as we say in America "el comprador tenga cuidado" (buyer beware). It's your money. If you can't trust the seller... don't buy from them. If you don't trust in the future of home automation..... I don't know what to tell you.

[HA Dave]

..... What many of us wish to do is make better use of our existing (at home) servers to be less reliant on big brother.

Big Broth·er
/ˈˌbiɡ ˈbrəT͟Hər/
noun
a person or organization exercising total control over people's lives.

You know of course... I am an old military man. And I am pretty sure "big brother" can't be resisted with home servers.

[dave w]

Anyone been reading about how the 'net is slowing due to everyone self isolating with Netflix? "System providers are having trouble balancing loads" was one line I recall. Kinda like the grid on a 100 degree summer day.  Nope, I would not have another totally cloud based device either. Fact is, I will not be surprised the day my X10 Willie 100 goes dumb.

Sorry Authinx, but your "new product performance" and total dependency on the China developer, make me wonder how long your doors will remain open and my Willie will still work. (do not read in to that anymore than what is said). 

[brobin]

I've noticed occasional slow responses from Alexa. Sometimes the light comes on before the confirmation tone but mostly a delay in execution of up to 2 seconds. Web surfing seems normal overall and no issues streaming.

[bkenobi]

Same thing with "Hey Google" recently. I've had it just sit there spinning for a couple minutes until I gave in and typed the search manually.

[HA Dave]

...... Fact is, I will not be surprised the day my X10 Willie 100 goes dumb.

Sorry Authinx, but your "new product performance" and total dependency on the China developer, make me wonder how long your doors will remain open and my Willie will still work. (do not read in to that anymore than what is said). 

I am NOT a young man myself. I have a small handful of items I've owned... for the long haul (like my Cub Scout knife). But virtually EVERYTHING I've owned over the years have cycled through the normal progression from prized possession.... to recycled material (or landfill trash). For me.... that even includes 22 automobiles.

Even my prized and often praised CM15A ActiveHome Pro's (I actually have 3).... have gone from awesome... to an interface item. Nothing lasts forever. And whereas Home Automation was once a very niche hobby that is no-longer the case. It's true, Home Automation is in a golden age of AI and change. And the Internet itself is also changing into it's next phase as well. You are absolutely correct in the changes you see happening around you.

But the world keeps on turning. We can't stop or remove ourselves from these changes. This Home Automation lifestyle demands an ability to learn, adapt, and change. Sometimes we outgrow our interests.... other times our interests outgrow us.

[bkenobi]

Even my prized and often praised CM15A ActiveHome Pro's (I actually have 3).... have gone from awesome... to an interface item. Nothing lasts forever.

Just a reminder that we are discussing a garage door opener which will not last forever (the ones installed are probably 20-30 years old).  I wouldn't say any garage door opener is "awesome" but it should be able to open/close a door when the person is either at the button on the house or in a vehicle approaching the door.  Anything beyond that is a bonus, but those are the key basic requirements for it to be considered a garage door opener to me.  For some reason you think that the stance such a device does is not required to be cloud enabled makes someone need a tin foil hat and that they reject the power grid etc.  Seems a bit of a leap to me as there is a vast ocean between the two positions.  And if you read and think about other positions presented here, basically every statement presented by all of the users has been the same...cloud is ok/good/great but a major appliance should continue to function in the basic way it was designed (fridge/washer/drier/garage door opener/etc) when the cloud goes offline.  Seems there are some cognition issues somewhere along the line.  Either that or HA Dave has a financial stake in Alexa's and Siri's success.

[HA Dave]

..... I wouldn't say any garage door opener is "awesome" but it should be able to open/close a door when the person is either at the button on the house or in a vehicle approaching the door. 

And as mentioned in the 1st reply post... virtually EVERY garage door sold has such local control.

.... For some reason you think that the stance such a device does is not required to be cloud enabled makes someone need a tin foil hat and that they reject the power grid etc.

Yes. That is correct. In today's world... things like the Internet, Blue Tooth, WiFi, Streaming, and yes "Cloud"... aren't just trendy words. They ARE at the center of the modern industrialized world.

HA Dave has a financial stake in Alexa's and Siri's success.

Yes. Correct again. I'd say EVERY American has a vested interest in the success of these American based mega-giants. If America lags behind in the global progress forward in technology we may suffer now... and for generations to follow.