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[HA Man]

I have experienced a puzzling (and quite upsetting) series of failures of assorted X10 wall switch modules, all exhibiting the same failure mode.  Over a period of 1-2 months, SIX modules have failed, each at a different time, three of them within one week.  The failure mode is that they turn on, apparently un-commanded, and then cannot be turned off via X10 PLC commands nor even via their manual pushbuttons, nor via cycling their AC supply power. The three non-XPS3 modules all had an identical pre-failure symptom over a period of weeks where they would not turn off via their pushbutton after having been turned on manually via their pushbutton.  During this pre-failure phase, they would turn off via X10 command, or after repeatedly pressing their pushbutton, or in some cases after waiting 10-15 minutes and then pressing their pushbutton again. All or most of these modules were installed at roughly the same time, several years ago, and have worked apparently normally until they malfunctioned or failed recently.  (Do they have some sort of "life expectancy" or "built-in expiration"?) In any case, I'm concerned that there may be some recent condition(s) that caused all these modules to fail within weeks of each other.  Do you have any idea what might be causing this sort of failure?  There have not been any storms here, and I don't believe there have been any power outages, surges, etc.  But I'm concerned about replacing any more of the failed modules until the cause of failure has been identified and corrected.  Can you help?

The modules involved and their applications are:

• (3x) XPS3 - each controlling a ballasted area light fixture.
• a WS13A - controlling a circuit consisting of two florescent shop lights and one 60-watt incandescent light
• a WS13A - controlling a circuit consisting of two CFL bulbs, one florescent shop light, and one LED shop light (the LED being a relatively recent addition)
• a WS467 - controlling a circuit consisting of one incandescent (yellow) "bug light".

All these modules are located in out-buildings, between 100' and 300' from the main circuit breaker panel, but on various branch circuits, all of which involve at least some overhead outdoor power wiring.
After removal, I "bench-tested" each module with a PHC02 Maxi Controller plugged into a power strip along with the module under test.  Each module showed the same failure mode under these test conditions as they had when installed.  I have replaced two of these modules with XPS4 modules; one of these new XPS4 modules appears to work OK, but the other does not respond to X10 commands sent from near the main circuit breaker panel.  Prior to its failure, the WS13A module that it replaced did respond to X10 commands sent from the same controller in its same location.

I also disassembled two of the failed modules (one XPS3 and one WS13A) for inspection and found no indication of damage - no burn marks (from arcing or burned-out components), no rust, corrosion, or oxidation, no de-soldered joints or loose connections, no melted parts, and nothing else that looked suspicious.

This situation concerns me that replacement modules also may fail, due to some thus far unidentified reason(s).  Any ideas about what could be causing these module failures, or how to track it down?

[Brian H]

For the relay on and off switches.
Are they stuck on or turn on and can't be turned off?
If they are always and you can't turn them off. The mechanical switch may have broken.
Can you hear the switch try and switch a few times and then quit trying (clunk,clunk,clunk)? That could be the am I on or off sensing circuit.
Do you have any phase coupling between the phases?
Preferably do you have an X10 repeater to boost the X10 signals. Especially to get the signals to the other building.
You could try rotating the House and Unit Code dials a few times. We have seen then sometimes get flaky and the module is not on the code set on the dials. Rotating them sometimes clears up the poor connections.

[JeffVolp]

After removal, I "bench-tested" each module with a PHC02 Maxi Controller plugged into a power strip along with the module under test.  Each module showed the same failure mode under these test conditions as they had when installed.

While I first suspected a signal strength or powerline noise problem, the fact that the removed modules exhibit the same failure mode when tested in a different environment with a nearby controller would tend to eliminate that possibility.  One way to confirm is to isolate that power strip with an X10 XPPF filter to eliminate any effect from something else in your electrical environment.  If the modules still exhibit the same failure mode, the are likely defective.

Jeff

[HA Man]

For the relay on and off switches.
Are they stuck on or turn on and can't be turned off?
If they are always and you can't turn them off. The mechanical switch may have broken.
Can you hear the switch try and switch a few times and then quit trying (clunk,clunk,clunk)? That could be the am I on or off sensing circuit.
Do you have any phase coupling between the phases?
Preferably do you have an X10 repeater to boost the X10 signals. Especially to get the signals to the other building.
You could try rotating the House and Unit Code dials a few times. We have seen then sometimes get flaky and the module is not on the code set on the dials. Rotating them sometimes clears up the poor connections.

Just to clarify, the failure mode is that the modules are always on, and not only do not respond to any X10 PLC commands but do not respond to their manual pushbuttons either.  The failure mode remained the same when I uninstalled the modules and then tested them "on the bench" as described (using a single incandescent bulb as the "load").  All involved modules had been installed and working normally for at least five years prior to the rapid-fire failures.  That said, specific answers are:
- There does not appear to be any response to either PLC or pushbuttons - no clicks/noises, no blink of LEDs (where applicable), and no change in the connected lights.
- Yes, there is a passive coupler in the main on-premises breaker box.
- I do not have a repeater installed.
- I did try "working" the code dials and the pushbuttons, but for five of the modules, it had no effect.  In the case of the lone WS467, that module did start working again, after I had been playing with its dials and switch.
It appears that the failure in the other modules is a "hard failure" of the electronics, possibly the relay driver, but I don't have the information/ability to confirm that.
Thanks!

[HA Man]

After removal, I "bench-tested" each module with a PHC02 Maxi Controller plugged into a power strip along with the module under test.  Each module showed the same failure mode under these test conditions as they had when installed.

While I first suspected a signal strength or powerline noise problem, the fact that the removed modules exhibit the same failure mode when tested in a different environment with a nearby controller would tend to eliminate that possibility.  One way to confirm is to isolate that power strip with an X10 XPPF filter to eliminate any effect from something else in your electrical environment.  If the modules still exhibit the same failure mode, the are likely defective.

Jeff

Because the failed modules don't even respond to their pushbuttons, I assumed that the problem is with the modules, not with the "electrical network" including PLC issues.  It certainly appears that the modules have failed, but my primary concern is what caused all these non-simultaneous failures in rapid succession, producing the same failure symptoms across several module types.  (I don't want to waste time and money replacing the failed modules only to have the new ones fall victim to some inherent "systemic" problem.  If there is such a problem that's "killing" these modules, then it appears it must be a fairly recent development, because all these modules (and many others) had been working OK for years.  Rather puzzling - and frustrating).
Thanks!

[Brian H]

Not working on the test setup with strong X10 commands and their own local control buttons.
It does sound like they have a hardware failure.
The relay modules if they click. The internal relay has failed. If they don't even click. Some electronics in them has failed.
Do you know the line voltage they are seeing. I would suspect a real high voltage may effect them.
Static and surges could also effect them.

[HA Man]

Not working on the test setup with strong X10 commands and their own local control buttons.
It does sound like they have a hardware failure.
The relay modules if they click. The internal relay has failed. If they don't even click. Some electronics in them has failed.
Do you know the line voltage they are seeing. I would suspect a real high voltage may effect them.
Static and surges could also effect them.

Yup, all indications are that the modules died - although I apparently "resurrected" the WS467.
A power glitch of some sort does seem like a likely suspect, but not conclusively because:

• There were no detected power problems around the time of the failures
• There is a "whole house" surge protector in place, along with several plug-in surge protectors in various locations; none of these indicate having been "activated" (although I don't know how reliable their indicators are)
• Only these six modules died (other X10 modules, including those on the same branch circuits, apparently were not affected)
• Although all six modules had the same failure state, the failures all occurred at different times, separated by at least 1-2 days each, over a span of 1-2 months

Unfortunately, I don't have any powerline monitor that would help to detect surges, spikes, drop-outs, nor even out-of-range voltages.   It does appear that overhead powerline segments could be associated with the problem in some way - because all six failed modules were on circuits that are fed by (different) overhead powerline sections.  So, I assume there's a possibility that some occasional power anomaly could have been induced onto those overhead powerlines - but that seems rather unlikely.

I also wondered about loose connections on those overhead powerline segments, that might cause power glitches when the powerlines get moved by wind, etc. or due to thermal expansion/contraction... but I'd expect that such problems would cause noticeable symptoms in other electrical devices on those circuits, too (but no such issues have been apparent).

As for static, the period of those failures did roughly coincide with an unusual hot/dry spell - so I suppose that could have made conditions ripe for static discharges, like when I touched the manual pushbuttons on the affected modules.  However, I wasn't aware of any static "shocks" in those instances.

Anyway, it's all very puzzling - and worrisome.  So, I'm wondering if this failure mode, and its cause(s), is a known condition, and if so, what applicable preventive actions are available to avoid recurrences.
Thanks!

[HA Man]

I neglected to mention that X10 Tech Support strongly suggested that the "outdoor" location of these failed modules has some bearing on the failures, perhaps due to humidity issues.  Although I'm a bit skeptical of this possibility, due to the length of time (years) that the modules had been working OK in those locations, along with the quick succession of near-identical failure states, it's a possibility that seems worth discussing:

These modules (and others) were installed inside unheated out-buildings or in a couple cases, in "weather tight" electrical enclosures outside of buildings.  Although I found no apparent evidence of moisture incursion, I'm wondering whether other folks have any experience with X10 modules that are installed in similar conditions, and if so, whether they experienced any failures of those modules - that might have been caused by "outdoor" exposure? 

Relating to that, have you found any good means to protect the X10 modules from whatever environmental-related problems they may experience in such locations?

Thanks!

[brobin]

I think one of the realities of using X10 modules - or any other HA modules - is that over time some will fail. There may have been a stressor that caused several to fail at once or they may have just failed from age or environmental conditions.  Fortunately they are inexpensive enough to just replace from time to time. 

[bkenobi]

It probably depends on the type of module.  I have several receptacle modules (5 total, combination of X10 SR227 and Smarthome branded Insteon/X10 units) that are behind weather resistant covers around the house.  I have a chime module and used to have a WS467 light switch in my unheated shop (was there before I moved in and only removed due to switching to LED motion lighting).  I have a pair of WS13A relay wall switches in my attic.  None of these have controlled temperature or humidity and all would likely be considered outside what X10 recommends.  However, none of these have failed.

On the other hand, the only modules I own and use that X10 does recommend for outdoor installation are MS16A motion sensors which fail all the time.  I only have 1 currently deployed and it's under a roof and out of view of the sun and sky.  The others located in various positions that could see either the sun/sky or get wet from rain all failed pretty reliably (irony intended).

Not to say that you couldn't be seeing humidity/environmental failures, but in the last ~10 years of this setup I have not seen anything fail outside of the "outdoor" motion sensors.

[HA Man]

I think one of the realities of using X10 modules - or any other HA modules - is that over time some will fail. There may have been a stressor that caused several to fail at once or they may have just failed from age or environmental conditions.  Fortunately they are inexpensive enough to just replace from time to time.

Well, while some failures can be expected, this situation well exceeds any expectations - or else there was one whale of a coincidence, with six modules failing in the same way, within days or weeks of each other, but none at the same time as another.  Seems fishy - as though there is some sort of common, but sporadic, problem that developed only recently and somehow targets only one module at a time.  If it's simply "old age", then it's as if they have a fairly precise "expiration date" - yet other modules installed at the same time, and having been "living" under the same conditions, have not failed (so far).   So... ?

I guess key questions might be whether all modules routinely fail in the same way, or if this failure state indicates these modules have been subjected to some particular stressor.  But if so, then why didn't they all fail at the same time?  Trying to analyze the cause of this failure is sort of like trying to grab Jell-o: Get a grip on part of it, and it just squeezes out somewhere else!

[HA Man]

It probably depends on the type of module.  I have several receptacle modules (5 total, combination of X10 SR227 and Smarthome branded Insteon/X10 units) that are behind weather resistant covers around the house.  I have a chime module and used to have a WS467 light switch in my unheated shop (was there before I moved in and only removed due to switching to LED motion lighting).  I have a pair of WS13A relay wall switches in my attic.  None of these have controlled temperature or humidity and all would likely be considered outside what X10 recommends.  However, none of these have failed.

On the other hand, the only modules I own and use that X10 does recommend for outdoor installation are MS16A motion sensors which fail all the time.  I only have 1 currently deployed and it's under a roof and out of view of the sun and sky.  The others located in various positions that could see either the sun/sky or get wet from rain all failed pretty reliably (irony intended).

Not to say that you couldn't be seeing humidity/environmental failures, but in the last ~10 years of this setup I have not seen anything fail outside of the "outdoor" motion sensors.

It sounds like you have modules installed in locations that have similar "environments" to mine - without failures, suggesting that environmental issues likely are not the cause here.  Of course, the modules that failed had survived 10 years or so in those environments - so, perhaps it is just a question of when they'll fail.

I hear you about the "outdoor" motion sensor modules (MS16A and PR511).  I don't have an MS16A installed "outdoors", so it hasn't experienced a "hard" failure - but it does tend to issue sporadic bogus commands on a different House/Unit code than it is set for.  As for PR511's, I can't count how many of those have failed (or are degrading) in my "system".  Too bad - 'cause they aren't replaceable anymore.

In any case, I've seen only one or two instances of module failures where there was any indication of moisture damage - and those occurred due to failure of their "weather-tight" enclosures (and even that moisture incursion didn't always lead to "hard" module failure).  Other times, failed modules (that were installed "indoors") showed signs of burned-out components... but the recently-failed modules show no signs of damage of any sort, suggesting they may have suffered surge/spike damage severe enough to take out an IC, but not to leave any overt signs.  But, if so, then it's very strange why each module failed at a different time - while others apparently survived.   Got me.

[Brian H]

Some of this could be the modules age and hardware version.
X10WTI redesigned some of the modules with a different design and parts used.
Like more available surface mounted parts that where a completely different part and power supply.
I know the lamp and appliance modules are different with the surface mounted parts. Like the 3.3V main supply.

[HA Man]

I may have "swamped" this issue with "too much information", so let me ask this more specific question:

Is there any known (or suspected) cause for modules such as the XPS3, WS13A, and WS467 to fail in the following way:  Module turns ON for no apparent reason, then cannot be turned off by any means, OR module gets turned ON via its manual pushbutton, and then cannot be turned off by any means.

This failure scenario seems like it may have a specific cause - such as static discharge, as was suggested - so knowing specifically what causes this failure mode should help to "back-track" to what is responsible for that cause.  Anyone know if there is some sort of "knowledge base" of failure symptoms with their cause(s)?

[Brian H]

On but not Off.
Can be a weak signal that when on the load drops the X10 signal too low to operate or the load is making power line noise.
The XPS3 and WS13A are both modules with on off relays.
You can disconnect the Load wire and have Line and Neutral still connected. To see if it makes a difference.