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Author Topic: Voltage leak on X10 light modules ?  (Read 4063 times)

Nurb432

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Voltage leak on X10 light modules ?
« on: February 21, 2023, 07:39:06 PM »

In the old days, the x10 powerhouse light modules had a slight voltage leak when off. In the incandescent/fluorescent/etc days no one ever noticed.  I found this out when i switched to LED lights a decade or so ago. Not a huge deal once i figured it out, now i just have fancy nightlights :)

But i have a non-light device that freaks out when it only has a slight voltage and beeps for infinity. It would be nice to be able to switch it on/off remotely. ( and not buy something from a 2nd vendor just for this.. everything else i have is x10,  since the 80s when BSR owned them... )

So 2 questions:

1 - Do the new pro series modules have this same leak?
2 - If so, Is there a way to stop it on new or older modules so that when its off, its really off?
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guyl

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Re: Voltage leak on X10 light modules ?
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2023, 08:48:57 PM »

The slight current leak was for powering the module electronics themselves in the "incandescent only" light switches, since they were in series with the load. They needed to be powered so that they could listen to the X10 signals on the powerline.

In appliance and lamp modules, the current leak was used for current draw detection to provide local control (turn the lamp or whatever off and on to signal the module that you want it to turn on). This can be disabled in a few ways. See here:

http://kbase.x10.com/wiki/Local_Control_for_Lamp_And_Appliance_Modules
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bkenobi

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Re: Voltage leak on X10 light modules ?
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2023, 12:41:21 AM »

Any module that uses a relay will work for your needs.  The voltage leak you are referring to are modules that are generally marked "incandescent lights only" and use a triac to control the on/off state.  The down side to relay modules in the past was that they were generally pretty noisy when switched.  I have one in my basement to control the lights on the front of my house and can hear a distinct click when actuated on or off.  There are newer modules that should be quieter based on forum comments I've read.

Nurb432

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Re: Voltage leak on X10 light modules ?
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2023, 07:06:03 AM »

Actually 1 of mine is an appliance module with a relay ( it has the receiver, figured id use it for a light since it was there taking up space ), and it still leaks. However i see in the post above there may be a way to fix those modules.  Going to read that that today.

Any module that uses a relay will work for your needs.  The voltage leak you are referring to are modules that are generally marked "incandescent lights only" and use a triac to control the on/off state.  The down side to relay modules in the past was that they were generally pretty noisy when switched.  I have one in my basement to control the lights on the front of my house and can hear a distinct click when actuated on or off.  There are newer modules that should be quieter based on forum comments I've read.
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Nurb432

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Re: Voltage leak on X10 light modules ?
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2023, 07:08:17 AM »

Thank you, i still have a couple of appliance modules in the box ( one is in use, and ya, it leaks ).  Ill give that a read later today.    Googling around didnt find a solution, gotta love google :)

The slight current leak was for powering the module electronics themselves in the "incandescent only" light switches, since they were in series with the load. They needed to be powered so that they could listen to the X10 signals on the powerline.

In appliance and lamp modules, the current leak was used for current draw detection to provide local control (turn the lamp or whatever off and on to signal the module that you want it to turn on). This can be disabled in a few ways. See here:

*snip link as i cant post links yet*
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Nurb432

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Re: Voltage leak on X10 light modules ?
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2023, 05:46:03 PM »

Peeked at those instructions this afternoon and it looks like my relay modules are different model than pictured ( mine are also receivers ), but since they still sell the 'right ones, ill order a couple and tear them apart instead of experimenting on the ones i have.   Thank you.

*snip*

In appliance and lamp modules, the current leak was used for current draw detection to provide local control (turn the lamp or whatever off and on to signal the module that you want it to turn on). This can be disabled in a few ways. See here:

*snip*

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AMXoldhack

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Re: Voltage leak on X10 light modules ?
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2023, 11:18:09 PM »

I also ran across this problem years ago and with the bartana website ( defunct, but stored by others) found out how to add a neutral to incandescent wall switches, enable local dimming, disable the the leakage from from load sensing,(so you could turn a lamp or appliance off then on and have it turn on without a x10 command). newer units now have been redesigned.
the old trick off putting a incandescent night light bulb still works.
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Nurb432

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Re: Voltage leak on X10 light modules ?
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2023, 08:04:18 AM »

Well darn, the new versions dont have a jumper.   Guess ill try the nightlight idea.
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Brian H

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Re: Voltage leak on X10 light modules ?
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2023, 11:25:18 AM »

Are the Appliance Modules a plug in type?
The later ones where surface mounted controller and different power supply. They still had a small current to sense am I on or off.
They didn't have the jumper.
If you disable the sensor. The module click on and off trying to determine on or off.

The Lamp Modules with the new controller and power supply. Also had no jumper.
But I found information on disabling the local sensing in a soft start style Lamp Module. I may have information on it if you are using the than module.
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Nurb432

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Re: Voltage leak on X10 light modules ?
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2023, 11:34:38 AM »

These are brand new, no jumper ( and broke the case taking one apart :( )  .  Dedicated appliance module. Model AM466 ( which is what the other link talked about ) These are plug, in 3 wire, no radio receiver. ( like my others, they are 2 wire + radio )

I do have a couple of older lamp modules 2 wire.  LM465.

Going to see if local grocery store has any incandescent nightlights left ( bet its only LED around here at this point, which i know wont work )
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bkenobi

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Re: Voltage leak on X10 light modules ?
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2023, 08:04:18 PM »

There are always going to be some form of incandescent (well, for a while anyway).  Look for the heavy duty or harsh environment bulbs which may require a hardware store.  The ones that go inside your oven or refrigerator are going to be incandescent for a while.  LED are not suitable for oven environments because they are plastic.

Nurb432

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Re: Voltage leak on X10 light modules ?
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2023, 08:09:52 PM »

Right, and you can find replacements for older sockets, but as i suspected all the new nightlights were LED.

But i have a couple of ideas to try. draining 7 watts wont be that hard.


There are always going to be some form of incandescent (well, for a while anyway).  Look for the heavy duty or harsh environment bulbs which may require a hardware store.  The ones that go inside your oven or refrigerator are going to be incandescent for a while.  LED are not suitable for oven environments because they are plastic.
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brobin

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Re: Voltage leak on X10 light modules ?
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2023, 08:16:12 PM »



Going to see if local grocery store has any incandescent nightlights left ( bet its only LED around here at this point, which i know wont work )
Amazon still has them:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08LK2LC5R/ref=sbl_dpx_lighting-night-lights_B01LWRX5C7_0
« Last Edit: February 25, 2023, 08:17:53 PM by brobin »
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Nurb432

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Re: Voltage leak on X10 light modules ?
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2023, 08:17:16 PM »

i just meant during my shopping trip today.
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gadgetboy

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Re: Voltage leak on X10 light modules ?
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2023, 01:15:58 PM »

I have had some luck using old 3 volt or higher plug in power supplies (think cell phone chargers) plugged in to the output of the module. This provides enough load to allow the led to stop glowing.
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