Phase Coupler/Repeater

[KDR]

Has anyone run into the problem with repeaters that when it repeats the address for a command to dim a light the light gets 2 signals and dimes to much? Do repeaters only repeat once or multiple times? If once I could set the light to dim half of what I want knowing it will get the command again and dim again. Any ideas on this subject?

I purchased a phase coupler/repeater thinking it would be better but now I think I should have just gotten a coupler.

[Brian H]

Should do once; but if the module is in a place to see the original command and the repeated command. It may double dim. Also some repeaters may double dim. I don't have any dimming modules with my Smarthome Dryer Outlet Repeater, but I think in dim tests I have seen double dims. Couplers are OK if you remember that the noise and signal level at the coupler is what gets back to the other phase. Like if the 5 volts from the controller or PLC  at the coupler is down to 1 volt. The other phase starts at 1 volt back to the other branch circuits.

Just a side note on Repeaters. In my case the Smarthome 4826B. I just got some of the AM14A two-way modules and when they start from power up. Send a find my status command that the CM11A [was an old X10 paper I read] and most likely the CM15A respond to with a last known state that sets it back that way. Well mine most times starts a Firestorm of continuous extended signals that swamp the powerlines making the system lock up completely.

[Charles Sullivan]

Brian H:
As far as I've ever observed, the CM11A by itself sends nothing in response to an AM14A (or LM14A) power-up signal, and I suspect the CM15A doesn't either.  It's most likely the software which does this.

[Brian H]

Yes my reply was to broad. It is the software that has to see the request and then send a reply.

[roger1818]

Has anyone run into the problem with repeaters that when it repeats the address for a command to dim a light the light gets 2 signals and dimes to much? Do repeaters only repeat once or multiple times? If once I could set the light to dim half of what I want knowing it will get the command again and dim again. Any ideas on this subject?

I purchased a phase coupler/repeater thinking it would be better but now I think I should have just gotten a coupler.

What make and model of CR do you have?  Phil Kingery describes two different ways CRs handle bright and dim commands (one used by X10 (and thus Levition) and one used by ACT) in his article Which One Should I Use, Part V:  Dim/Bright Commands and Coupler-Repeaters.  Neither of these should cause too much dimming, but I like ACT's approach better.

[Brian H]

I found a real problem with my sale purchased AM14A Two-Way modules and my Smarthome 4826B 3 pin Dryer Outlet Repeater/Coupler. The AM14A and LM14A both have no nonvolatile memory in them to remember settings if the power is lost. So on power up they send a extended request for Status (Hex 37) on the powerline. The CM11A and I would guess CM15A should receive this request and the software should send commands to program it to last known state.
Anyway this request on some but not all House/Unit Codes starts a Firestorm of continuous X10 signals bouncing from phase to phase so that the whole system is toasted and no real signals get through. Have to unplug the module or turn off the repeater to stop it.

[KDR]

What make and model of CR do you have?

Sorry, should have stated that early on. I have the Smarthome 4826B.

[KDR]

Another thing I noticed is that when AHP sees the repeated signal it changes the status of dim/bright.

[panama]

This post caught my attention.  I have the Smart Home 4826B with the the AH CM15A.  The MS13A and WS467 are the only modules in a constant traffic pattern.  I, too, have seen the CM15A start flooding with odd "J" macro commands and lock out any legitimate access.  Is this considered a "feature" of the CM15A or the 4826B?  Is there any known fix or mod?  Unfortunately, I need the amplification as well as the coupler.  Thanks.

[TakeTheActive]

Unfortunately, I need the amplification as well as the coupler.

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[roger1818]

This post caught my attention.  I have the Smart Home 4826B with the the AH CM15A.  The MS13A and WS467 are the only modules in a constant traffic pattern.  I, too, have seen the CM15A start flooding with odd "J" macro commands and lock out any legitimate access.  Is this considered a "feature" of the CM15A or the 4826B?  Is there any known fix or mod?  Unfortunately, I need the amplification as well as the coupler.  Thanks.

It is a known incompatibility between the CM15A and both the SmartHome and the Leviton CRs.  From what I have read, the ACT CRs don't have this incompatibility.  I came up with a theory once about why there is this incompatibility, but have never heard an official responce from X10 though.

[Brian H]

Well I know the Smarthome 4826B 3 pin dryer outlet repeater and the X10 AM14A don't get along at all. The module on power up sends a request for my status to the controller and it's software. All I get is a constant firestorm of X10 Signal garbage on the powerlines. So the CM15A having problems; as reported by others; doesn't surprise me. The ACT units have a switches that can set things like don't repeat repeated signals; so that may help.

[Walt2]

Yep, the same for me.

I just got a 4826B, and it clearly does not play well with my LM14A 2-way Lamp Modules.

No problems with any of my other modules, just the LM14A's.   

In playing around with it, the problem appears to be between the LM14A's trying to return status,
and the 4826 trying to repeat that status.   The LM14A "sees" the repeat as a collision, and subsequently
tries to return status again.  The 4826 tries to repeat it again.  Etc.  Etc.

The result is the 4826's A-side LED blink.  Then the B-side.  A-side.  B-side.  Over and over again,
ping ponging back and forth.

Until you unplug either the LM14A or the 4826. 

My suggestion, is that if you any 2-way modules, to avoid the 4826A or 4826B.

BTW, has anyone else reported this is Smarthome's Tech Support?  I just tried, and they claim to
have never had anyone else report it (implying it is just me, and not their 4826).

[brp_]

Not just you at all. I have a 4826B, and I see this ping pong as well (on a totally unrelated code O13- and I don't have anything on O nor transduce that house code). I haven't seen it many times, but I recently had it happen when I sent a poll request. I polled a standard module that had been set up as two-way previously (so no real return) and a real two-way. Not sure which caused the ping pong to start, but the "real" two-way is likely, with the return wreaking the havoc. Odd that it's an unrelated code...although it has happened a couple of times before, and it was O13 then as well.

I will be calling Smarthome tech support later, and I'll mention that I know you reported this in case they try the "never been reported" angle

UPDATE: I spoke with Smarthome and got a good rep. He had not heard of the issue, but immediately thought that it might ping pong for the reasons stated. His initial answer was that one just needs to get a higher quality item to avoid this. Consultation with his colleagues made him think it might be defective (they had not heard of it either). They're going to send a new one, and I'll try that. Beyond that (and I'm not hopeful), a coupler/repeater than can be set to ignore repeated signals may be necessary for truly using the two-way features.

Cheers.

[immyfish]

Oh great!
I'm expecting a 4826b to arrive any second now! I don't have any 2 way modules currently, but had anticipated moving in that direction.  Thanks, at least, for saving me some (more!) aggravation.