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[tom j]

Say could anyone recommend a tester for line noise, what would be a good one hopefully at a reasonable cost. Thanks

Tom j.

[dave w]

Say could anyone recommend a tester for line noise, what would be a good one hopefully at a reasonable cost. Thanks

Tom j.

YES!
Jeff Volp is in the final stages of developing a X10 signal level meter which will also indicate quantitave levels of noise in the X10 spectrum.

http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=18408.0

I have one and love it. It provides far more information than the old ELK MS1 meter which has been an X10 consumer grade testing standard until they quit making it a couple of years back. ACT also makes a a professional grade X10 signal level/noise tester but is very expensive ($400).   

[mike]

FIRE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

FOLKS BE CAREFUL WITH THESE PUPPIES!  I HAD TO USE FIRE EXTINGUISHER LAST WEEKEND TO PUT OUT THE FIRE WHEN MY X10 XPPF BURST INTO FLAMES!

THEY HAVE NO FUSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It charred the 2x4 wall stud by the outlet before I got the flames out!

This is the X10 unit (brown) sold by X10.  Says UL listed on it.

I can send pictures of the damage and the destroyed unit to anyone interested - just let me know.

What happened is I had right close to a 5 amp load on it (3 sets of 8' florescent bulbs) and when the eagle eye saw me enter the warehouse, it turned on the 15amp wall switch, turning on the lites just like a hundred times before (added this filter 1 month ago).  I headed for the refridge in the back to get a beer and heard crackling.  I turned around and saw smoke rolling out of the filter then 2 seconds later flames about 12" high!  They did not go out.  By the time I grabbed a fire extinguisher 5 seconds later it had already charred the wall stud the outlet is mounted on.

The chokes inside the unit are wound on combustible plastic cores and when they overheated they caught fire.  The pcb is totally gone around the male plug pins and the case of the xppf is melted where it also burned.

This is one of around 20 I have all over our house, office, garage here.  Have probably 10 more at another office across town.  I believe this is the highest amperage load I have on any (110w bulbs x 3 x 2 = 5.5 amps or so - I may stick clamp on ammeter on and verify this).

Wondering why the fuse did not pop before the chokes (3 total, wound with looks like #18 solid copper wire) overheated and burst into flames, I took another one apart.  Wow!  It's chokes have the varnish bubbled from overheating AND THE PLASTIC CORE MELTED ON ALL 3!  Again, no fuse!

So I guess the moral of the story is consider thoughtfully before using the X10 xppf models instead of the nice smarthome fused models.  I am going to ebay right now to buy 30 smart home units to replace all mine!  Hate to say it, but I got a firesale on my 30 or so xppf units - anyone want to make me an offer   ??  javascript:void(0);javascript:void(0);

[mike]

actually I was wrong above;  the chokes are not melted down inside this unit but the pcb is gone around the 2 male plug pins - must have been a bad solder joint and it heated until the pcb burned away.  the 2nd unit I looked at that was still 'good' still had the chokes melted down inside as stated above.  Bottom line remains:  no fuse means chance of fire.

[Brian H]

Thank you for the heads up. Hopefully it may spare others the problems you had.

I would measure the current and take into account. Starting surges and the fact that the lights may have high instantaneous current spikes not seen on a standard ampmeter. I have seen current spikes when testing some fluorescent bulbs. Maybe the instantaneous spikes overheated the coils. The average current maybe 5 amps on a meter but the instantaneous current peaks maybe higher than that.

I doubt the fuse or breaker for the branch circuit would trip. It is designed to hold for the whole circuits rating plus starting surges for things like motors.

The Smarthome FilterLincs and the ACT AF120 both have time delay fuses in them, but have a much heavier coil to carry the current.

http://home.comcast.net/~gafield/family/gary/electronics/X10_Filter.pdf

Looked into one of mine and yes it looked like #14 wire on the Yellow coil form. Also in a look at both the 5 and 10 amp model. Only the fuse size seemed to be different. 

I would go for the 10 Amp FilterLincs as I feel there was more than five amps through the filters. Though I tend to use conservative safety margins.

I had a few early Insteon ApplianceLincs start smoking. Not a nice thing to see or smell.

I found a schematic of a Leviton 6288 and it also didn't show any fuse.

[HA Dave]

THEY HAVE NO FUSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THX mike. A helpful from me.

[JeffVolp]

I have used the XPPF at its rated load.  They will get warm and start to stink.  So, I recommend not pushing them to their maximum rating.

There may be an entirely different issue here.  Your fluorescent light ballasts are not resistive loads.  If those lamps have the older inductive ballasts, the out of phase "imaginary" current must also be considered.  Since you don't have to pay for that, it is not represented in the wattage consumption on the label.  However, the utility company must deliver it, and that current does pass through the filter inductors.
 
If those lamps have electronic ballasts, they may have a power supply that conducts only near the peak of the AC waveform.  Heating is a function of the square of the current.  If the conduction angle is relatively small as it is in a capacitor input rectifier, the heating is significantly higher than for the same amount of average current distributed across the waveform.

The bottom like is that the XPPF filters work well, but should not be pushed near their maximum rating.  This is especially true when powering reactive and electronic loads.

Jeff

[Brian H]

Jeff your findings on the XPPF forced me  to try one myself.
With a 500 watt resistive load [200 Watt and a 300 Watt Incadescent Bulbs]. Mine got warm and started to smell like the coils maybe getting warm. I had about a 1.24 Volt AC drop from Input to Output and the current was 4.1 Amp AC. Gee that is about 5 watts of power for the coils in the filter.

The wire on the coils looks like maybe #20. My FilterLinc has #14 in it coils.

[Brian H]

Did another test with a XPPF and a 600 Watt Load. 300W; 200W and 100W light bulbs.

4.87 Amps AC ;575 watts as measured with my Kill-A-Watt tester.

In fifteen minutes the XPPF got very warm and smelled. Disassembled it and L1 and L2 coils [schematic of Leviton 6288 version of the filter] got hot enough to start deforming the plastic bobbin it was wound on. This was a resistive light bulb load.

[JChen18]

We know that the Chebyshev filter is used to separate one band of frequencies from another. And I think they cannot match the performance of  another filter. The dehumidifier can take over because the basement needs a controller for the noise filter. SEO Services