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[Dan Lawrence]

Is it too much to ask of X10USA for a new STABLE version of AHP.   The last stable version is 3.228, over two years ago.  The next two, 3.236 and 3.271 were buggy,  3.271 was 3.236 "hacked" to support the VA12A.   

[Knightrider]

3.236 supports the va12a.

Could you mean the CM19A?

[Brian H]

I believe 3.271 added the CM19A and the UX17A IR Commander.

[pconroy]

Is it too much to ask of X10USA for a new STABLE version of AHP.   The last stable version is 3.228, over two years ago.  The next two, 3.236 and 3.271 were buggy,  3.271 was 3.236 "hacked" to support the VA12A.   

I can't think of a reason why they won't opensource the base AHP package.
"Give away the razors; sell the blades," approach.

[nybuck]

I would have to agree. 

Based on what I have seen, if AHP was open source, the users here would have that thing 'humming' !!

[dave w]

RANT ON

Is it my imagination, or is X10's quality really spiralling down?
Triac based light controllers that only turn off half way, receptacles with piece parts that only endure operation for a month before breaking, software that can't seem to get timers to turn things on or off, three different versions of the same light module/switch all with the same model number and all responding differently to simple "ON" commands, poorly written instructions that do not clearly instruct a new user that only one wireless camera can be on at once, thus only one image is active, even on a quad screen, camera software that takes a computer science PHD to massage it into working, "low light" cameras that require 300 watts of night time illumination to see an image, instructions that so vaguely address noise and coupling problems that one would think they are inconsequential, security systems with internal PC boards captivated with screws so short that chewing gum would work as well. etc. etc. etc.

X10 needs to hire a "real" quality engineer at the corporate level. Even adopting the semblance of the lowest level of ISO 9000 would improve things dramatically.

I think the only thing saving X10's bacon right now is this forum, and the high cost of Z-wave, and competitive security / video products.

RANT OFF

[Dr.Fiero]

RANT ON

I think the only thing saving X10's bacon right now is this forum, and the high cost of Z-wave, and competitive security / video products.

RANT OFF

That, and an apparent advertising budget so massive...  well...  if they maybe spent the advertising budget on quality control and GOOD primary engineering...  we could stop ranting! (in the mean time though - do continue!)

[JeffVolp]

Is it my imagination, or is X10's quality really spiralling down?

We live in a world where low price is the primary driver.  There are few companies out there today whose goal is to produce a quality product that lasts for years.  The fact that we can purchase X10 modules as cheaply as we can means that corners have to be cut in the manufacturing and support.

It is incredible that most X10 devices can work as well as they do considering how inexpensive they are compared with competing products from other companies.  The only major issue that should be addressed is is a better way to deal powerline noise than adding filters to every noise generator.

Jeff

[dave w]

I hear you, but disagree on at least one point. When your corner cutting to maintain margin turns your products into crap, you are hurting your own sales and is counter productive. Some of the forum complaints we have seen lately smacks of little or no manufacturing quality control at all, other than the consumer being the "end of line" quality inspector. 

I used to work for a "Six Sigma" and ISO 9000 (9004) company whose mantra was "quality, quality, quality". So I might be a little overly critical of X10 (especially since said company is now slowing going out of business) but X10 used to have better quality (selective memory?).

I would be curious to know what some of their product volumes are. Obviously if you make 10,000 wigets a day, you are going to have a few bad ones.

[JeffVolp]

When your corner cutting to maintain margin turns your products into crap, you are hurting your own sales and is counter productive.

I totally agree with you.  That is the reason I will not consider buying a Sony product again.  Years ago they had a reputation for a quality product, and I had no problem with their higher price because of that.  After a run of bad Sony products in the 90's, I vowed never to buy that brand again.  Their XBR TV was a reliability nightmare that started breaking down during the warranty period.  The high-voltage supply, low-voltage supply, AGC, tuner, and sound all crapped out.

We know up front that with X10 we are not buying quality.  We are buying functionality as cheaply as possible.  I think that in most cases we get that.

Jeff

[Brian H]

We saw the samething with the Insteon SwitchLinc switches.
The picked a surface mounted tact switch the paddles actuated.
After a while they became intermittent.
Eventually so many where failing. They could not blame customer induced problems.
Ended up costing them money as they are now replacing any switch with tact switch problems at no cost. Even if it is out of the two year normal warranty.

[dave w]

After a run of bad Sony products in the 90's, I vowed never to buy that brand again. 

Yeah, when shopping for a new flat panel TV for bedroom, I noticed Samsung and even Vizio (Vizio!!) had sharper picture than Sony and Sharp.

[nybuck]

Dave W - I really want to argue with your X10-bashing, thoroughly critical rant!

But momma told me not to lie....   

So, yeah, X10 gives us marginal quality, and a CHEAP price.  We try for hours, and some times days to get it to work.  We try in vain to get some customer service/support on the phone.  We ask other users for their best advice here on the forums...  When all that fails, we desperately beg X10 for a refund or exchange.  We (I know I have) swear we will never buy from X10 again...  Then they send us those incessant "deals" and we make another order!  It's almost a disease!!

[Dan Lawrence]

X10 did the Same Thing with Active Home.  The last version of Active Home was buggy, so we pretty much stayed with the next to last version, much like AHP 3.228 is the last good version.

[JeffVolp]

X10 did the Same Thing with Active Home.  The last version of Active Home was buggy, so we pretty much stayed with the next to last version, much like AHP 3.228 is the last good version.

From someone who has been programming since the birth of microprocessors (and FORTRAN before that), I can say software and firmware are difficult to maintain over time.

The people involved with the original development often either leave the company or are on other projects when maintenance issues arise.  Even code that is well commented can be difficult to understand when one has been away from it for a period of time.

Adding features can be especially difficult because of the possibility of breaking something that has been working fine all along.  Except in certain cases, far more testing is done during program development than the retesting following a change.  So, it is easy for new bugs to slip through the cracks.

Jeff