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Author Topic: Insteon as we know it is gone  (Read 8014 times)

JeffVolp

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Re: Insteon as we know it is gone
« Reply #75 on: June 14, 2022, 02:43:03 PM »

The pre-set dim conversion works on transmit only.  It will expand the pre-set dim to an extended command only when there is a 2-command sequence of the house/unit select followed by a pre-set dim command.  This works for pre-set dim commands sent from HomeVision.  Since I don't yet have a Harmony (G2 ordered), I can't confirm that it also sends the house/unit & pre-set dim command pair.

While the firmware includes the left-over code for receiving extended commands, it presently just indicates it received an extended command and the extended portion of the command is ignored.

Jeff
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JeffVolp

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Re: Insteon as we know it is gone
« Reply #76 on: June 16, 2022, 10:21:40 AM »

Walmart said the G2 won't be here for another week.  So it would really help if someone could capture what the Harmony uses to establish communication with the IM.  I supported the Reset and Get Version commands in the XM.  Hopefully that is all the Harmony needs.  If so, I'm ready to send out a Beta version.

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brobin

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Re: Insteon as we know it is gone
« Reply #77 on: June 16, 2022, 10:38:12 AM »

Can I capture that with the XTBM? Just let me know what to look for & I'll have it done today.
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JeffVolp

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Re: Insteon as we know it is gone
« Reply #78 on: June 16, 2022, 11:16:05 AM »

Can I capture that with the XTBM? Just let me know what to look for & I'll have it done today.

No, this would be the serial data between the Harmony and the IM at power-up.  A simple test would be to connect the Harmony to a terminal emulator (19.2KBaud) and see what it sends at power-up.  Hopefully it is just the Reset and Get Version commands.  Then an RS232 splitter can be used to see what the Harmony echos back.

Of course, maybe it does nothing to establish communication, and just relies on the echo and ACK/NAK coming back.

Jeff
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brobin

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Re: Insteon as we know it is gone
« Reply #79 on: June 16, 2022, 12:23:43 PM »

It's been a number of years since I've done this stuff.  Since I only have USB ports to work with, can I connect the Harmony to a laptop via a USB cable and use an emulator like Putty or MobaXterm to see what's going on?
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JeffVolp

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Re: Insteon as we know it is gone
« Reply #80 on: June 16, 2022, 12:44:23 PM »

It's been a number of years since I've done this stuff.  Since I only have USB ports to work with, can I connect the Harmony to a laptop via a USB cable and use an emulator like Putty or MobaXterm to see what's going on?

I haven't used either of them, but that may work.  I've been using Termite on my ancient Win98 laptop.

Note that the XTB-232 / XTB-XM emulates the CM11A serial port.  So a USB to serial adapter must be used with the Harmony along with a CM11A cable:  https://www.ebay.com/itm/380474050324

Jeff
« Last Edit: June 16, 2022, 12:46:29 PM by JeffVolp »
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brobin

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Re: Insteon as we know it is gone
« Reply #81 on: June 16, 2022, 04:40:02 PM »

I may have one of those cables already or I can make one if you have the pinouts.  No sense in my ordering one since you'll have your G2 before I'd get it.
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JeffVolp

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Re: Insteon as we know it is gone
« Reply #82 on: June 16, 2022, 05:33:33 PM »

I may have one of those cables already or I can make one if you have the pinouts.  No sense in my ordering one since you'll have your G2 before I'd get it.

From the CM11A specs:

2.1 Cable connections:

        Signal  DB9 Connector   RJ11 Connector
        SIN       Pin 2           Pin 1
        SOUT    Pin 3           Pin 3
        GND      Pin 5           Pin 4
        RI         Pin 9           Pin 2

where:  SIN     Serial input to PC (output from the interface)
         SOUT    Serial output from PC (input to the interface)
          GND     Signal ground
           RI       Ring signal (input to PC)

Obviously, you don't need the Ring signal for this application.
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brobin

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Re: Insteon as we know it is gone
« Reply #83 on: June 18, 2022, 04:48:55 PM »

I've got family stuff going on all weekend so I think by the time I get this sorted out you'll have a G2 in hand. I wish I could be more helpful.
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Brian H

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Re: Insteon as we know it is gone
« Reply #84 on: June 18, 2022, 05:59:02 PM »

The serial 2412S and 2413S PLM. Only use three wires from the RJ45 serial port to the DB9S cable in the box.
Pin 1 RS232 to PC pin 2 (Rx)
Pin 7 Common Ground PC pin 5.
Pin 4 RS232 from PC pin 3 (Tx)
Has a set of TTL signals but not used on pin 3 TTL out and pin 6 TTL in.
The 2412U and 2413U.  Have a FTDI USB to serial chip and as far as I can see. Only common, serial in and serial out are used internally.
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JeffVolp

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Re: Insteon as we know it is gone
« Reply #85 on: June 22, 2022, 09:52:25 PM »

Progress...

As expected, the Harmony sends the Get Version command to determine whether the IM is connected.  That and the Reset command are the two non-X10 commands that the XTB-XM supports.

Unfortunately, the mod is not as simple as a firmware swap.  While the XTB-XM responded to the Get Version command sent directly from the computer, it indicated an error when receiving the command from the Harmony through a USB to serial converter.  Apparently the "1" is a bit shorter coming from the USB converter than directly from the computer.

The XTB-IIR serial port was designed for the CM11A, which runs at 4800 baud.  The Harmony runs at 19200 baud, so opto-isolator speed is more important.  Reducing the value of the pull-up resistor on the opto-isolator output improves the waveform fidelity.  So this would have to be a "factory mod" when converting existing XTB-232s.

After that mod the XTB-XM responds to most commands.  There is still an occasional receiving error and sometimes the Harmony misses the acknowledgement.  So more work is required to get this rock solid.  But this will be an alternate to the IM for X10 systems.

Faster opto-isolators will be used in a newly produced XTB-XM for 19200 baud.

Jeff
« Last Edit: June 23, 2022, 09:53:43 AM by JeffVolp »
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brobin

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Re: Insteon as we know it is gone
« Reply #86 on: June 23, 2022, 12:16:29 AM »

That's great news! It'll be good to have an alternative to the now rare & expensive PLM.
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JeffVolp

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Re: Insteon as we know it is gone
« Reply #87 on: June 23, 2022, 12:27:02 PM »

I think I've tracked down the remaining problem.  Using the XTBM to monitor what the XTB-XM was actually transmitting showed it sometimes sending P11 instead of P1.  The data patterns are similar but P1 has a string of 3 zeros, P11 has a string of 4 zeros.  Hmmm...

So I measured the length of the USB to serial converter transmission, and converted that to baud rate.  It was sending at 18.62K instead of 19.2K.  A similar measurement on the serial output from the PC was 19.0K.  So the errors may be due to the USB to serial converter baud rate being off.  Unfortunately, that's the only USB to serial converter I have, so this will go on hold until I can get another one.

(Staples doesn't have local stock, and the one they list for $26 is $6 on eBay with free shipping.)

Jeff
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brobin

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Re: Insteon as we know it is gone
« Reply #88 on: June 23, 2022, 12:36:22 PM »

It's been awhile since I've shopped for one but I know that the Sabrent with a Prolific chipset works best with the Stargate at 19.2.  Others had problems.
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JeffVolp

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Re: Insteon as we know it is gone
« Reply #89 on: June 25, 2022, 02:13:38 PM »

While waiting for the alternate USB to serial port converters, I adjusted the XTB-XM baud rate to 18.88K.  Now it appears to be rock solid with the Harmony.  The Harmony itself is not as rock solid as it often ignores the cellphone tap that toggles the ON/OFF command.

So...  I will be able to update an existing XTB-232 to the XTB-XM or build remaining XTB-232 PCBs as XTB-XMs.

Jeff
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