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Author Topic: AHP does not report status of LM14A (2-way switch)  (Read 25624 times)

alang_94526

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AHP does not report status of LM14A (2-way switch)
« on: September 06, 2006, 01:29:58 PM »

I have an AHP system connected through a CM15A to an assortment of LM14A, LM465 and WS12A devices as well as 2 raiin8 sprinkler controllers.
In addition, I have a phase coupler on my 220V AC outlet and a noise filter on my PC's power supply.
Everything works except I cannot get status from any of my LM14A 2-way lamp controllers.
Is this a known issue? I've trawled through the posts on this forum and haven't seen anyone with the same problem on an LM14a.

Alan
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Brian H

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Re: AHP does not report status of LM14A (2-way switch)
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2006, 04:21:24 PM »

You mean when you poll it it doesn't give back a status or if the local control is used to turn it on or off. It will not send back the status as the change is made?
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alang_94526

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Re: AHP does not report status of LM14A (2-way switch)
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2006, 05:29:37 PM »

Both.
If I turn on or off the lamp locally, it neither updates the switch status on either the room view of AHP, nor makes any change to AHP's activity monitor.
Similarly, if I manually poll, it doesn't record any change in status no matter what I do locally at the lamp.

Alan
 
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Brian H

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Re: AHP does not report status of LM14A (2-way switch)
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2006, 07:00:15 PM »

I am not using AHP that much right now and my test LM14A [from a sale was sold out] and all I have is an AM14A.
The LM14A and AM14A will not send back local changes if the software does not set it to do so. The module default is only respond to status requests. In my tests the AM14A starts a firestorm of X10 line signals when plugged in with my Smarthome Repeater. The module on power up requests its last know status from the interface therough the running software.
I hope an AHP user with AM14As or LM14As will give you more help.
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Charles Sullivan

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Re: AHP does not report status of LM14A (2-way switch)
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2006, 07:01:08 PM »

Both.
If I turn on or off the lamp locally, it neither updates the switch status on either the room view of AHP, nor makes any change to AHP's activity monitor.
Similarly, if I manually poll, it doesn't record any change in status no matter what I do locally at the lamp.

The AHP Activity Monitor is buggy again.  (It used to work ... sort of. )  The Output Status Acknowledge now always displays 1b (hex) in the Activity Monitor regardless of the brightness level.

AHP configures the LM14A to report status on change of state with that "Extended Code  3  3b" you see in the Activity Monitor when you drag the module into a room.  But the LM14A is semi-buggy about reporting its status.  It will report when turn On locally, but not if turned Off locally.  It will report when controlled by the X10 powerline commands On. Off, Bright, and Dim,  but not with All_Lights_On or All_Units_Off.

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alang_94526

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Re: AHP does not report status of LM14A (2-way switch)
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2006, 07:23:43 PM »

Thanks Brian and Charles. What do I have to do to have the SW change the status reporting to automatic?
Is the "status request" you refer to the same as hitting the "poll" button on the switch?
You gave me a good idea which was to hook up my powerline monitor (which I bought when I was trying to figure out where noise was comig from - turned out to be my PC) to see if my LM14A even sends data when it's turned on or off locally.

Alan
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Charles Sullivan

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Re: AHP does not report status of LM14A (2-way switch)
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2006, 08:05:41 PM »

Thanks Brian and Charles. What do I have to do to have the SW change the status reporting to automatic?

It's done automatically by AHP when you drag the LM14A into a room, but you can repeat it.  Put an extended code command in a macro by selecting Advanced Functions from the pulldown menu on the right.  Drag in the extended code icon and fill in  Command code 0x3b, Data 0x03.  Note: I haven't tried this myself so can't say AHP won't screw it up.

Quote
Is the "status request" you refer to the same as hitting the "poll" button on the switch?

Yes, but it will (or should) work without have to configure the status reporting.  However as I mentioned the only response will be (Data) 0x1b.  To send from a macro the extended status request would be Command code 0x37, Data 0x00.

Quote
You gave me a good idea which was to hook up my powerline monitor (which I bought when I was trying to figure out where noise was coming from - turned out to be my PC) to see if my LM14A even sends data when it's turned on or off locally.

You should see the status response in the Activity Monitor, but only for local On (i.e. by turning Off, then On the switch on the lamp).

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Brian H

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Re: AHP does not report status of LM14A (2-way switch)
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2006, 06:50:12 AM »

As Charles has said. On power up it will not send a status on local change. The software should see the modules power up request for a status update and configure it. The sensing local off is documented in an X10 paper as can't detect a local off. That is if memory is not fading again. ::)
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Charles Sullivan

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Re: AHP does not report status of LM14A (2-way switch)
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2006, 08:27:50 AM »

As Charles has said. On power up it will not send a status on local change. The software should see the modules power up request for a status update and configure it. The sensing local off is documented in an X10 paper as can't detect a local off. That is if memory is not fading again. ::)

I just tried interrupting power to a LM14A for about 30 seconds.  When power was restored, the LM14A sent its powerup request (which appears in the Activity Monitor as Receive Extended code  10  37)  but AHP did NOT reconfigure the module.
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alang_94526

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Re: AHP does not report status of LM14A (2-way switch)
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2006, 02:18:26 PM »

Thanks for all the info. I'll do some digging into the extended codes stuff as it sounds interesting.
I dug around the forum and found that I was monitoring the wrong house code. I fixed that and I can now see the lm14a send data when I turn the lamp on locally, but as you predicted, it doesn't send anything when I turn the lamp off locally.
This isn't so much of an issue for me since this all started when I was trying to write a macro that would only execute if the module was on.
Thanks again for all the input.
Alan
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Brian H

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Re: AHP does not report status of LM14A (2-way switch)
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2006, 01:49:16 PM »

Ok did some tests. Used the extended codes information sheet found in the X10 Support; Users Manuals and a white paper on the LM14A/AM14A I found on another site though credited to X10.
Used my older CM11A with Active Home as it was the subject in the white paper.
Disable my Smarthome Dryer Outlet Repeater as it is known to not like X10 Extended Codes and does a firestorm of signals overpowering all X10 transmissions.
Start AH and make sure the AM14A is defined on the set address.
Plug in the AM14A
AH sees the AM14A and reprograms it to send status on changes.
If it is off and I use the Local Control to turn it on. The module in AH also changed to On
Also if I send a status request to it and it is on but the load is off. I also get a warning that the module is on but no load was drawing power.

Log: Extended Messages:
Power up                 10 37
Status off with a load c0 38
Status off no load      40 38
Status on no load       ff 38
I believe that on with load would be the same ff 38 as the white paper indicated with the module on the ability to detect the loads state didn't work.

Found the white paper link:
http://www.idobartana.com/hakb/2way_theory.htm
« Last Edit: October 24, 2009, 03:53:30 AM by -Bill- (of wgjohns.com) »
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Charles Sullivan

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Re: AHP does not report status of LM14A (2-way switch)
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2006, 05:20:07 PM »

Now this is VERY interesting Brian!

I had never seen the (extended) status-off, no-load indication (40  38) on any  of the AM14A or X10Pro PAM22 (AM15A) units I have - always the load-connected (c0 38) even with nothing plugged in.  I assumed that feature had either never been implemented or else had been removed because it didn't work very well.  So I was surprised to see the results of your tests.

After reading your post I just tried testing several of the AM14A and one PAM22 again.  I found that after applying AC power and getting the power-up code (10 37) that the feature did work - I'd see the (40 38) code if there  is no load or (c0 38) with a load.   But once the module has been turned On, either with or without a load, then after turning it Off again I almost always get the load-connected indicator (c0 38) regardless of whether there is a load connected or not.

Temporarily interrupting AC power long enough to get the power-up signal when the power resumes (it sometimes requires the power be off for 15-20 seconds) restores the no-load/load-connected indication as described above.

By contrast, I had found the LM14A 2-way Lamp Module to be very reliable in reporting whether or not the lamp switch was turned On or Off.

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roger1818

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Re: AHP does not report status of LM14A (2-way switch)
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2006, 11:07:29 AM »

It makes sense that an AM14A would not be able to detect if a load is connected when the module is on since the only way to do this would be to measure a voltage drop across a series resistor.  Since the AM14A is rated for 15A, a 0.1 ohm resistor would produce 22.5 W of heat (way too much).  A 0.01 ohm resistor would produce a more manageable (but still high) 2.25W but the voltage drop with smaller loads would be too small to measure easily (at 1A it would be 10mV and at 100mA it would be 1mV).

The LM14A could detect if a load is connected by briefly turning the triac off and measuring the voltage drop across a much larger series reistor.
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Charles Sullivan

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Re: AHP does not report status of LM14A (2-way switch)
« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2006, 08:02:12 PM »

It makes sense that an AM14A would not be able to detect if a load is connected when the module is on since the only way to do this would be to measure a voltage drop across a series resistor.  Since the AM14A is rated for 15A, a 0.1 ohm resistor would produce 22.5 W of heat (way too much).  A 0.01 ohm resistor would produce a more manageable (but still high) 2.25W but the voltage drop with smaller loads would be too small to measure easily (at 1A it would be 10mV and at 100mA it would be 1mV).

Still the fact remains that the AM14A only reports a load connected or not connected immediately after initial powerup.  Once the module has been turned On it always reports the load as connected when turned Off again, regardless of whether there was _ever_ a load connected.  I think that's a bug.   At least this is the case for all the AM14A and PAM22 modules I have.   Brian's may be different.

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Brian H

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Re: AHP does not report status of LM14A (2-way switch)
« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2006, 07:51:05 AM »

I was using Active Home with a CM11A that was in the technical paper from X10 on how the AM14A and LM14A work.
AHP with a CM15A maybe not the same animal.
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