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...Be Given The Same Courtesy & Help as Those Who Register, READ (hours / days / weeks / etc...), and *THEN* Ask Questions?
Example (actual data, but name changed):
| Name: | Joe Newbie |
| Posts: | 1 (N/A per day) |
| Position: | Newbie |
| Post rating: | +0/-0 |
| Date Registered: | Today at 16:25:58 |
| Last Active: | Today at 16:33:34 |
« on: Today at 16:33:34 »[/b]]
I need... Can someone help?-
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I think you are being too picky.
You were a newby once.
Sometimes I get the impression that you being a CO has increased your hat size. No offense intended.
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Sometimes I get the impression that you being a CO has increased your hat size. No offense intended.
IMO, there are certain comments that should be reserved for PMs.
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I think there should be a poll on the public debate - Yes/No :)
Anyhow, I feel it depends on the situation. A lot of times people do not understand the search function or realize its power. I give credit to any user reaching out and actually using the forum, but I do believe the user should be politely directed to the search function along with a simplified answer to their question if possible.
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IMO, I think we need to cut the newbies some slack.
From my observation, most newbies expect that the forum is a direct link to X10 technical support. They feel that they have purchased a product that doesn't work as advertised and that they are owed a solution and think that posting anywhere in the forum is the same as "chatting" with a technical support representative.
I think we should politely answer them or direct them to the appropriate information.
I know it gets tedious answering the same question over and over and over again, but no one is forcing you to answer anyway!
So, if you want to help, be patient and helpful. If it gets to be too much trouble, let someone with more patience deal with it.
Just my two-cents. ;)
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I think a newbie is just that, someone who has just purchased X10 gear, received it in the mail, ripped the box open and hooked up the stuff. Couldn't get it working, now reads the instructions that came with the stuff, maybe got half of it working, and wants the rest working as fast as possible. They find the boards from the X10 site and come here and register. (A Newbie Is Born)
Some of them search and find what they need, some search and find nothing because they don't really know what to search for and others post right away because they want specific answers right away... not read through tons of posts. Their in a hurry and want the new toys to work right now. The one thing they all have in common is they came here, good or bad they learned something and from that they all have a change to become like Bill, TTA, Dan, Charles, and all the other great people that help over and over again. Thats my two cents.
(With Bills 2 cents and my 2 cents we now have 4 cents.)
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A new user; many times may ask the same questions we answer everyday. Sometime it takes extra patience to keep answering the same questions. I SYSOP on a Vintage Computer BB and manytime we get the same questions so here is not unique.
I know the new users data is a big help, but many new users don't use it. If we want to keep a user and make them more knowledgeable. We should just send them the needed data and in a nice way show them the readmes and help files.
If we offend them or make them feel dumb. They may not return and that is a loss for everybody.
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I tend to to agree with the sentiments of Bill, KDR & Brian.
Newbies get frustrated when things don't work like the perfect image the $49.95 pop up gave them. Even I get frustrated when something that worked fine for over a year decides it's not going to work right. i.e. I had a signal everywhere in the house one day and now I don't. Still working on finding the cause and I think I know all the possible problems.
An educated newbie can be one of our greatest assets on this board. So I favor a guiding hand rather than a scolding hand even if that means repeating myself multiple times. I just try to find a creative way to say things each time.
Charging Brian 2 cents for his comment ;) and adding my 2 cents to Bill's and KDR's means we have 8 cents now. Almost a dime!
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I still know what it's like being a newbie.
Had I been required to register first before posting my first question, I would have because to me my question was important.
I was confused and unfamiliar with the forum and search function.
Even though my question might have been seen as stupid and already asked numerous times by other stupid people.
Brian H, took the time and effort to give me an answer. Something I'll always be thankful for.
People like Brian H and others who guided me made all the difference with experiencing X10.
Yeah ! That includes you TTA.
So, Bless you all that give the time and effort to helping newbies get their feet wet.
Keep up this good work.
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Newbies are Not always new to x10 but new to the forum and its layout!
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What is the point of the question/suvey?
Isn't it more or less up the the poster who elects to take the time to answer a repeating newbie question?
I tend to ignore the newbies who start out with a lot of whining and bashing, I will try and help steer a newbie where it appears the newbie is at least trying.
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Post that start off with alot of whining and bashing usually comes from frustration [/b] [/color] (those who have spent some time trying to get their system running) ;) :D Some you can convince other wise by helping, some you can't ::) ;)
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I've read *SEVERAL* posts lately from NEWBIEs that:
[/color][/size][/b]
all within the span of a few minutes. :(
So, personally, whether I know the answer not, I don't reply. IMHO, 'No Effort' invested upfront deserves 'No Effort' returned.
But, I've also recently read this interesting post:
As far as the Newbees Posting issue I have to say that quite honestly I am overwhelmed by the amount of information available in the forums. Each product I have has its little quirks then add to that the individual circumstances of each persons home or apt wiring, walls, ect. and you have a huge system of variables. So as I have done in the past searching for hours may not produce something that may apply to MY circumstance although it is a frequently asked question. Perhaps a revamp of the search engine in someway?[/b] (TTA NOTE: Not going to happen any time soon.) All I know personally is that the answers to most common question are here but it is MORE OF AN EFFORT TO FIND THEM THAN TO POST IT AGAIN and the real issue is that most people are going to take the easy way out........ but I must say that the few times I have asked questions the replies have been courteous and helpfull so thank you to those with patients....[/size]
"...but it is MORE OF AN EFFORT TO FIND THEM THAN TO POST IT AGAIN and the real issue is that most people are going to take the easy way out..."
Is this *REALLY* a VALID reason to take "...the easy way out..." ? ??? :( [Comments encouraged!]
[Please view: MORE STATS: Most Time Online (http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?action=stats)]
The problem is that I received the hardware in the mail very quickly but they only sent me a link to download the macro program. I called, e-mailed, chatted asking for the remainder of my order but NOTHING...... NO reply to MY E-MAILS the person on the phone said she would send the link via my e-mail NOTHING...
Newbies get frustrated when things don't work like the perfect image the $49.95 pop up gave them. Even I get frustrated when something that worked fine for over a year decides it's not going to work right. i.e. I had a signal everywhere in the house one day and now I don't. Still working on finding the cause and I think I know all the possible problems.
An educated newbie can be one of our greatest assets on this board. So I favor a guiding hand rather than a scolding hand even if that means repeating myself multiple times. I just try to find a creative way to say things each time.
I also favor informing NEWBIEs that, for the past several months, VOLUNTEERS have been the *SOLE* source of Tech Support here.
Be patient someone using multiview will responded it may take up to a week! ;) :D
More of the regular posters are ones using the ActiveHome Pro (AHP) software !
AHP will do what you want! But you'll need the plug-ins iWitness & Myhouse Online
I can't comment on multiview or the pan&tilt software as I've never used it!
Since it appears that SOMEONE is reading this thread (Should Newbies That Invest No Time What-So-Ever SEARCHing The Forums... (Read 920 times)), I felt it appropriate that I add my recent comments here...
My personal thanks, in advance, to the NEWBIEs that at least invest some time SEARCHing *BEFORE* ASKing...
[NOTE: All formatting in the Anonymous QUOTE is mine... Current Count: 49 DINGs]
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Is this *REALLY* a VALID reason to take "...the easy way out..." ? [Comments encouraged!]
I agree with what your saying TTA.
I do find myself more & more first looking at a new person's time online to see if they were here long enough to put forth an effort to find their own answers. I also look at the who's online screen often to see where the newbies are looking. Then when they do ask a question, I try to use this info to influence my response. But sometimes I do slip ::) Hence the reference today to the old Kung-fu show. ;)
I'm learning from you. :)
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Thinking back, I remember how confused and frustrated I got trying to set up my system.
;D Thankfully, there were those on the forum that took the time & patience to answer me although my questions were asked & answered many times before. The patient guidance of these persons is the reason I'm a happy X10er today. ;D
Just remember that it's entirely up to us, the members whether we decide to post a reply or not.
It wasn't long ago that I and others answered a question where the poster ; Let's just say that mackie1604 registered on Oct 9th posted 4 times and hasn't been back since Oct 14th. I can only suppose that the forum members did such a great job of answering this persons posts that they don't need us anymore. ;D ;D ;D GREAT JOB GANG ! 8) ;)
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I agree with Duck69's sentiments. A rank newbie to X10 is often too confused to know what to search for or even what questions to ask. A little gentle guidance at the start is what's required, even if it means answering the same simple questions time and time again.
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I just had to throw in a comment. I really consider myself a "Newbie" here and my first questions and expectations of answers
were way out in left field. I've read a little of what is here, but searching has not really been of any help. There are enough
posts here, in so many levels of expertise, that I bet a lot of the "Newbie"'s would be as lost as I was. You always have the
option to reply or not so I can't really see a problem with the way things are.
You guys really do show a lot more patience than most of the people I work with and the atmosphere in this forum is what I
would call "spectacular". X-10 as well as the "Newbie" people owe a lot to this place. I really would be against anything that
might limit what a green, new user, could ask. EVen if it was asked 1 hour before, that particular user may not be able to FIND
that answer without help.
Either way, The job that is being done here is already better than I could hope for. How could it improve?
Thanks to all of you.
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One thing to keep in mind too is that a lot of Newbies have already looked for an answer as a guest first. I know I spent many many hours here as a guest long before becoming a member. So the amount of time from start of membership to first question isn't always a true indicator of the person.
Generally the best indicator is the question and / or the details of the question. I have seen a few recent questions where the Newbie stated what they already tried... thats an indication they did some homework. I've also seen ones where they obviously didn't look first. But I think the majority fall in the NOT SURE WHAT TO DO NEXT catagory.
As Duck69 indicated, this board is great because the members do take the time to help, and no question goes unanswered. The level of the answer, I guess, depends on the interpretation of the question to the replier. I don't think anyone wants to repeat something that has been said over & over.
If the Newbies give more details about what they are doing & what they have tried, I'm sure that would satistfy everyone trying to help.
To sum things up, all you Oldtimers do an awesome job helping people... whether you show them how to fish, give them a taste to whet their appetite or feed them for the day, it's all HELPFUL! ;)
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One thing to keep in mind too is that a lot of Newbies have already looked for an answer as a guest first... ...So the amount of time from start of membership to first question isn't always a true indicator of the person.
Generally the best indicator is the question and / or the details of the question. I have seen a few recent questions where the Newbie stated what they already tried... thats an indication they did some homework. I've also seen ones where they obviously didn't look first...
...I really consider myself a "Newbie" here and my first questions and expectations of answers were way out in left field. I've read a little of what is here, but searching has not really been of any help. There are enough posts here, in so many levels of expertise, that I bet a lot of the "Newbie"'s would be as lost as I was. You always have the option to reply or not so I can't really see a problem with the way things are.
You guys really do show a lot more patience than most of the people I work with and the atmosphere in this forum is what I would call "spectacular". X-10 as well as the "Newbie" people owe a lot to this place. I really would be against anything that might limit what a green, new user, could ask...
Text is a difficult medium to properly convey *ALL* of one's thoughts in *ONE* post - many readers of this thread may feel that I'm always coming down too harsh on NEWBIEs, but that's not my intent at all. Look at all the FAQs and documents that I've created.
Puck summed up my feelings pretty well with his statement "Generally the best indicator is the question and / or the details of the question." and ArtClark posted the somewhat obvious (no offense intended) "You always have the option to reply or not...", which, when added together, convey the purpose of this thread - to raise a NEWBIE's awareness.
Although provided and funded by X10, the answers in this forum (for the past several months) have been provided by VOLUNTEERS, some of whom invest MANY personal hours. I'm not asking for any medals, but I *AM* asking all NEWBIEs to *PLEASE* AT LEAST READ THE FAQs *BEFORE* asking any questions.
Compare these 2 "examples":
I just bought AHP and wired up a few lights. I can control all of them locally but only some of them via AHP. Help!
I have a DS7000 Powerhouse security system... ...I have 10 door/window sensors and 2 motion sensors installed in my configuration. All was working for several weeks...
...All of a sudden yesterday, my Zone 8 (window) starts blinking slowly on my console. According to the user's manual, it means that the main console hasn't communicated with the sensor in the last 4 hours. The documentation says that it could be because of bad batteries. I replaced the batteries in this sensor, to no avail. Same problem.
Now today, zone 10 (window) and 11 (motion) are similarly blinking slowly (red). Changed the batteries on these zones, again to no avail...
...Does anyone have any ideas ?
If it appears that you haven't exerted *ANY* effort of your own, please understand that " some " folks will respond in kind.
MAP / MEASURE / CORRECT (Read 122 times) (http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=10732.msg61055;topicseen#msg61055)
How It Should Be... (Read 1867 times) (http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=10503.msg60593#msg60593)
Show just a little initiative and I believe you'll be overwhelmed with the responses you get... ;)
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In my humble opinion your posts are so full of color and font sizes, icons etc. that it makes it wildly difficult to read so I find it very funny you are the one initiating this rant. People hate ALL CAPS but this is ten times worse. I usually skip them, no offense, but I am sure you are already aware.
I've read *SEVERAL* posts lately from NEWBIEs that:
[/color][/size][/b]
all within the span of a few minutes. :(
So, personally, whether I know the answer not, I don't reply. IMHO, 'No Effort' invested upfront deserves 'No Effort' returned.
But, I've also recently read this interesting post:
As far as the Newbees Posting issue I have to say that quite honestly I am overwhelmed by the amount of information available in the forums. Each product I have has its little quirks then add to that the individual circumstances of each persons home or apt wiring, walls, ect. and you have a huge system of variables. So as I have done in the past searching for hours may not produce something that may apply to MY circumstance although it is a frequently asked question. Perhaps a revamp of the search engine in someway?[/b] (TTA NOTE: Not going to happen any time soon.) All I know personally is that the answers to most common question are here but it is MORE OF AN EFFORT TO FIND THEM THAN TO POST IT AGAIN and the real issue is that most people are going to take the easy way out........ but I must say that the few times I have asked questions the replies have been courteous and helpfull so thank you to those with patients....[/size]
"...but it is MORE OF AN EFFORT TO FIND THEM THAN TO POST IT AGAIN and the real issue is that most people are going to take the easy way out..."
Is this *REALLY* a VALID reason to take "...the easy way out..." ? ??? :( [Comments encouraged!]
[Please view: MORE STATS: Most Time Online (http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?action=stats)]
The problem is that I received the hardware in the mail very quickly but they only sent me a link to download the macro program. I called, e-mailed, chatted asking for the remainder of my order but NOTHING...... NO reply to MY E-MAILS the person on the phone said she would send the link via my e-mail NOTHING...
Newbies get frustrated when things don't work like the perfect image the $49.95 pop up gave them. Even I get frustrated when something that worked fine for over a year decides it's not going to work right. i.e. I had a signal everywhere in the house one day and now I don't. Still working on finding the cause and I think I know all the possible problems.
An educated newbie can be one of our greatest assets on this board. So I favor a guiding hand rather than a scolding hand even if that means repeating myself multiple times. I just try to find a creative way to say things each time.
I also favor informing NEWBIEs that, for the past several months, VOLUNTEERS have been the *SOLE* source of Tech Support here.
Be patient someone using multiview will responded it may take up to a week! ;) :D
More of the regular posters are ones using the ActiveHome Pro (AHP) software !
AHP will do what you want! But you'll need the plug-ins iWitness & Myhouse Online
I can't comment on multiview or the pan&tilt software as I've never used it!
Since it appears that SOMEONE is reading this thread (Should Newbies That Invest No Time What-So-Ever SEARCHing The Forums... (Read 920 times)), I felt it appropriate that I add my recent comments here...
My personal thanks, in advance, to the NEWBIEs that at least invest some time SEARCHing *BEFORE* ASKing...
[NOTE: All formatting in the Anonymous QUOTE is mine... Current Count: 49 DINGs]
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This thread just gets stranger and stranger to me...
I suppose I am more black and white than most of this reactionary posting reads. I would prefer not to tick anyone off being so "new" here and posting in a "situation" like this...
To me it is simple though... help anyone who is "trying". It is not that hard to distinguish between someone who is overwhelmed, lazy, and someone, angry or not, who is open to assistance and trying to resolve the issue etc. If you are "helping" someone who isn't listening, or cooperative, then you really aren't helping anyway.
Those who just come here to vent, that wastes "helpers" time in my opinion. Come back when you aren't angry. Emotions are generally only complimentary to logic when they are positive. Negative emotions are genetically designed to protect us in my opinion, for defence. Not something ideal for a learning state. We don't learn well when defensive. Most people I think would agree.
This is painfully over-simplified, but I will just move along unless I think of something I could say that would be productive.
Good luck sorting this out... as long as there is communication it can be "resolved" in some capacity I believe.
John Martin
MrBlackCat
Additional note: I am aware that I am repeating concepts and ideas (ideals?) that have already been stated by TTA, Puck, and others. I am just saying them in my own words. While they are my own views, I am not suggesting they are not shared as though original within this thread. I believe I "get it" or "see your point" is what I am getting at in my own words.
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Jollydodger,
Some people are able to convey thoughts and emotions through text.
That is, people such as Robert C. Clark, Mark Twain, Asiac Ismanov and the like.
HOWEVER, most of us lack their talent. :'(
Because of this lack of talent, we use:
CAPITAL letters, BOLD type, Fonts etc. to convey/express our thoughts and feelings on a subject.
Do I get an AMEN ? ;D
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Do I get an AMEN ? ;D
AMEN
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Amen..
back to the original post...
What the *bleep* are you talking about.
Sure the forum has answers... just as my favorite search site google has answers...
If you are going to respond to someone's question as though you know what
you are talking about, one of the most useless thing you can say is go look it
up yourself and walk away. At a minimum give them the keywords that will take them to
the appropriate links. They've already muck up the courage to ask.
If you don't want to repeat the answer give them a link to the
thread that will help them out. My goodness, help the newbies, don't
get irritated. There are 31 thousand 6 hundred and eight-three post and
growing as I type this. Even if 95% is repeated (more like 33%), that's still a lot of information to sort through to get to a very simple two sentence answer from someone who knows.
If you feel like wearing a button that sais don't ask me unless you've looked it
up.. go for it I guess..
Use charles, tuicemen and brian as your guide if needed. They will never
get irritated at a newbie. Charles and brian will always (that i've notice so far) answer the question as best they can. tuicemen answers new questions but always gives the links when it's a repeat or related issue. Now that's help.
They are why I still post. ;)
Everyone else has insight and with it some attitude (not excluding me), which is what makes it interesting.
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Just to make one thing clear. Here the use of large type or colors is to emphasize things. In most of the other forums and BBS I use. It is considered rude and annoying. Like you are shouting. Took me awhile to get use to this fact.
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It took me a while to get use to this as well although I use another board this way as well!
Some forums don't even show these options in the message creation screen but if you know the code you can add it! ;) :D ;D
In defence of TTA the original post was meant to encourage new users to research their problems! And from recent posts from newbies it seems to be working!
The posts that are answered always have a link to very valuable posts that if the user takes the time to read will give some very useful info!
Just look at the tag of all his posts! ADVICE TO X-10 NEWBIES FROM AN X-10 OLD-TIMER (http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/arcmessageview.php?catid=24&threadid=304237)
As Duck69 put it:Some people are able to convey thoughts and emotions through text.
That is, people such as Robert C. Clark, Mark Twain, Asiac Ismanov and the like.
HOWEVER, most of us lack their talent.
Sometimes lots of quotes helps convey ones thoughts better showing that others feel the sameway! ;)
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As a Newbie I thought that I would respond to this question. I have been working on various forms of electronics equipment for 26 years. Mostly however in the PC and UNIX Server field. I had been interested in home automation and lurked in the home automation news group years ago. But never had the time or money to invest in pursuing home automation.
If I may be so bold as to suggest that X10 appears to be marketing their products as plug and play equipment. Not something that requires a lot of tinkering to make it all work.
So If you are getting a lot of questions from people who have not RTFM as throughly as you might like, it may be that they are not looking for a new hobby.
In my case I came to this group because I was merely trying to get some expensive electronic hardware to work as advertised.
That was my .02. Thanks for reading.
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Lexington_Browns
Welcome aboard!
True X10 suggest that it is simple and it is(for the most part), making it reliable takes some work and lots of reading! ;)
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Welcome aboard Lexington_Browns
I think as you sort through the messages here and read the posts you will find some nice ideas on how people are using X10 gear along with other brands. Things that you will want to try. Then Pow!!! Your hooked, you have a new hobby and all you have to figure out now is how to keep the WAF up. ;D
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If I may be so bold as to suggest that X10 appears to be marketing their products as plug and play equipment. Not something that requires a lot of tinkering to make it all work.
So If you are getting a lot of questions from people who have not RTFM as throughly as you might like, it may be that they are not looking for a new hobby.
In my case I came to this group because I was merely trying to get some expensive electronic hardware to work as advertised.
I often refer to my X10 projects as a hobby. Because, I mostly use X10 for home automation, and I have no NEED to automate. I guess calling it a hobby helps me justify the obsession I have developed for X10.
I think I share an obsession for X10 products with most of X10 customers. And I can't say I have ever had any real problems getting X10 to work as advertised.
But I must admit, I started out with a starter kit, and "worked my way up" sorta to say.
There have been times... as I have expanded my system(s). That I have had to read the instructions. And through the use of this forum (and RE-reading the instructions) I have learned all I needed to learn.
I think... because X10 keeps the prices so low... it attracts some people to the more complex systems as a 1st purchase. Which is OK, but that can make for a rather steep learning curve, and a condensed amount of reading instructions.
Don't let that be a turn off. This X10 stuff is really cool, and it's more than worth the time, money and effort.
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There have been times... as I have expanded my system(s). That I have had to read the instructions. And through the use of this forum (and RE-reading the instructions) I have learned all I needed to learn.
INSTRUCTIONS? X10 comes with instructions? :o (goes to look in an old box to see)
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[
INSTRUCTIONS? X10 comes with instructions? :o (goes to look in an old box to see)
When I buy something... or even just thinking of buying something I have never owned before. I click the "whats included" link that X10 almost always includes in the advertisement. Then I right-click the PDF instructions and save them to my hard drive. The PDF allows me to make the print large enough to read.
Of course, I know you knew that, and I know you also know the same PDF's are available here online also. But this is the newbie thread...right.
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Did I mention that I read the instructions?
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Did I mention that I read the instructions?
CHEATER!!! :D
I hope you at least tried to get things working on your own first. ;) :D
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The next thing he's going to try to tell us, is when he's lost he stops for directions... :D :D :D :D :P
This is why we need a chat room. TTA its ok to delete these totaly off topic post, or you can leave them to show the guest we have fun and all they have to do is register and post.
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The next thing he's going to try to tell us, is when he's lost he stops for directions... :D :D :D :D :P
Reading directions is one thing.... stopping and asking directions......NO WAY!!! And I stand-up when I Pee too!
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And I stand-up when I Pee too!
LMAO Good thing you said that ... or else I'd have to request you hide that Avatar or at least post one from your better side. :D
Exactly KDR, the chatroom would be good for these completely OT tangents.
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OK... I know it's a sickness ;) but I not only read the instructions that come with the unit, I frequently :-[ download the manual for a product I'm thinking of buying!
On the brighter side, it has prevented me from buying the wrong thing at times (like when the specifications are totally out of line with my expectations ! :P ;D
Oh, yeah...
Welcome aboard Lexington_Browns!
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As a Newbie I thought that I would respond to this question...
...If I may be so bold as to suggest that X10 appears to be marketing their products as plug and play equipment. Not something that requires a lot of tinkering to make it all work.
So If you are getting a lot of questions from people who have not RTFM as throughly as you might like, it may be that they are not looking for a new hobby...
If I may be so bold as to point out - EVERYONE CURRENTLY ANSWERING YOUR QUESTIONS HERE IS A VOLUNTEER! :o [Not an X10 paid employee.]
X10 Corp, although they foot the bill for the site, stopped personally supporting their products here on a daily basis several months ago. My guess is that *WE* do a better job than anyone they could hire to replace the fellow that was doing it. *AND* we're doing it for *FREE*! ;D
While some volunteers don't mind answering the same-old-questions with their same-old-short-answers every day, others have invested countless hours writing FAQs and assembling LISTs of LINKs which thoroughly cover *MANY* of the daily questions and they would sincerely appreciate it if you (meaning *ALL* Newbies) would invest some time to READ them. 8)
BTW, for those who reply that, being Newbies, they don't know what terms to SEARCH for, well - the above-mentioned FAQs and LISTs are STICKIED at the top of various forums. :-[
P.S. Welcome to the "Community"! ;D
After you've read the FAQs & LISTs, including all of their referenced LINKs, please report back with anything that you feel we've omitted. Thanks! :)
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...This is why we need a chat room. TTA its ok to delete these totaly off topic post, or you can leave them to show the guest we have fun and all they have to do is register and post.
No, I think that this kind of 'chatter' belongs in the GENERAL DISCUSSION forum, in a thread like this, to 'Record' what kind of atmosphere we try to promote here.
If it was in a Chat Room, only the attendees would see it, and at the end of the session - POOF! - it would be gone...
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Instructions ?
I guess you can call me a self-defeatist or adventurer (depends on your point of view) as I only read the instructions as a last resort. ::)
I find that it's a lot more fun to try to figure things out first. ;D
Sometimes you succeed, sometimes you don't. ;)
Sometimes the instructions help, sometimes they make it more confusing especially when the instructions are wrong. :o
Then one of my traits kicks in. I really enjoy learning ,so, then I read everything (well a lot of it anyway) that I can on the subject. ;) :o
This of course is not the recommended way to do things. ???
One should learn as much as they can about the product first.
Then read the instructions and follow them verbatim.
This method saves you a lot of time, energy, frustration and in some instances $$$.
When all else have failed; Asking for help on the forum = success :D
However, having time on my hands & treating X10 as a hobby----------------------- ;D 8) ;D
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Good points Jim! They just, IMO, needed a slight re-arranging. ;)
- One should learn as much as they can about the product first.
. - Then read the instructions and follow them verbatim.
. - This method saves you a lot of time, energy, frustration and in some instances $$$.
. - When all else have failed; Asking for help on the forum = success :D
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Just remember:
There's the tinkerer newbie, and then there's the plug and play newbies who has never tweaked or had a desire to tweak anything in thier life.
I've always seen X10 as targetting both.
I'd like the forums to help those who have difficulty interpreting the instructions properly as well.
Things that are obvious to tinkerers do not apply to plug-n-play'ers. They key is to move the p-n-p'er over
to the tinkering side (the dark side of X10), by guiding them, even through the obvious.
Don't get too hung up on rules or repeats. It's not that bad...
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Being a Newbie I thought I would reply; ;D
I got my AHP back in July as a gift with all the plugins from my brother in-law. Cool! I set out on my X10 journey of home automation. As with most I ran into a slew of problems (trust me; I had them all). I found this forum and did extensive searching and reading and found all my issues had been addressed at one time or another. I finally decided to register as a member of this forum in September and have since logged just more than 8 hours on line (reading posts and learning). OK I'm hooked or should I say swallowed the hook. As of this writing my house lighting is fully automated and the AHP could not be working better. I know AHP has it's issues but if your willing to tinker; these issues turn out to be a fun challenge.
OK enough rambling; I would like to thank all you X10 veterans who contribute to this forum. I could have not gotten so far with X10 and AHP without the wealth of knowledge posted here.
I do agree newbies should take the time to search the posts!
This I know will save you guys alot of time on re-posts.
Well I've said my peace; back to searching and learning.
Thanks Guys. ::)
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Welcome to the community jkarney. Glad your enjoying yourself 8) and its good to hear your system is working for you and these here boards have helped you.
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Welcome aboard jkarney, it's good here from someone else who searched, read, learned and became a member. :)
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jkarney:
Welcome aboard!
It's always nice to hear from the ones that found the posts here Helpful ;) :D ;D
Why not get a Yahoo Id and sit in on a Chat some night
You'll pick up on some cool tips most likely! ;) :D ;D
For more info see:
Topic: STOP Watching Paint Dry / Grass Grow & JOIN TTA's "Community" Chat Today! (Read 909 times) (http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=10949.0)
note: you don't have to volunteer any time!
****Cheers****
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Tuicemen,
Matter of fact I got a Yahoo ID last night after reading the thread Topic: STOP Watching Paint Dry / Grass Grow & JOIN TTA's "Community" Chat Today!
I plan on sitting in on the chat. I look forward to volunteering and provide some support to some of those basic questions that seem to stream in over and over and over. I check the forum everynight but for now I'm going to leave the more technical stuff to you guys. I currently feel I have mastered the X10 basic's. I've been working in power plants for over 16 years working as an operator, mechanic and for the past 5 year as the Operations and Maintenance Supervisor. During these years I have been exposed to PLC programming and many other process controls. So when I gain more knowledge of X10 & AHP you will see me chime in more and more. I'm one who really hates to pass on bad information. I like to know if I'm going to post it's going to be useful.
By the way; I know this comment belongs in another thread but I also sent an request in to establish a homeautomation chat room.
Glad to be aboard
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.... I look forward to volunteering and provide some support to some of those basic questions that seem to stream in over and over and over. I check the forum everynight but for now I'm going to leave the more technical stuff to you guys. I currently feel I have mastered the X10 basic's. I've been working in power plants for over 16 years working as an operator, mechanic and for the past 5 year as the Operations and Maintenance Supervisor. During these years I have been exposed to PLC programming and many other process controls. So when I gain more knowledge of X10 & AHP you will see me chime in more and more. I'm one who really hates to pass on bad information. I like to know if I'm going to post it's going to be useful...
...By the way; I know this comment belongs in another thread but...
GUESTS/LURKERS: Why Don't You Register (and Become NEWBIEs)? (Read 4045 times) (http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=10503.0)
;)
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jkarney:
Welcome aboard!
It's always nice to hear from the ones that found the posts here Helpful ;) :D ;D
Why not get a Yahoo Id and sit in on a Chat some night
You'll pick up on some cool tips most likely! ;) :D ;D
For more info see:Topic: STOP Watching Paint Dry / Grass Grow & JOIN TTA's "Community" Chat Today! (Read 909 times) (http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=10949.0)
note: you don't have to volunteer any time!
****Cheers****
Tuicemen, I'm now *FINALLY* convinced!
In your " previous life ", you *DEFINITELY* worked for Western Union!!! (~50 years ago) :D
jkarney: ---STOP---
Welcome aboard! ---STOP---
It's always nice to hear from the ones that found the posts here Helpful ;) :D ;D ---STOP---
Why not get a Yahoo Id and sit in on a Chat some night ---STOP---
You'll pick up on some cool tips most likely! ;) :D ;D ---STOP---
For more info see:Topic: STOP Watching Paint Dry / Grass Grow & JOIN TTA's "Community" Chat Today! (Read 909 times) (http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=10949.0) ---STOP---
note: you don't have to volunteer any time! ---STOP---
****Cheers**** ---STOP---
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LOL
Thanks TTA! ;) :D ;D
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I have to tell ya, Ive been on 15 - 17 minutes and I joined, but they way a newbie is treated not sure if forum is good or not. You got people descriminating against someone who may have just spent 3 days trying to hook up a camera, and you think he /she should not get help because they have not studied. I can tell you I have read every piece of papaer that came with my cameras, and after three days finally have one in a PIP screen on the TV. which is not where I want to end up with it. I want it on my pc, three days of non study and no time on the forum makes me an outcast,
Frankly I just found out about this forum today, but I think I'm outta here with the remarks made by the old guys who have it all figured out and won't help someone.I found this whole line of discussion disgusting and the moderator should have stepped in long ago and stopped the thread. Frankly Mr Moderator I don'r care what you do with my membership.
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Frankly I just found out about this forum today, but I think I'm outta here with the remarks made by the old guys who have it all figured out and won't help someone.
Rev: I have not seen anyones question go unanswered, or at least unaddressed. Nobody is ignored.
There is a ton of information about most all common problems on this board and can be found using the search engine. Threads like this are to bring awareness to this fact. It helps members be able to help people with new questions better when they have done some searching and reading and state what they tried. Everyone here who regularly answers questions are volunteers... they do it to help share their knowledge... no other reason.
I found this whole line of discussion disgusting and the moderator should have stepped in long ago and stopped the thread.
You found this thread.... was it from a search?
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Rev: I have to agree with Puck about the wealth of information on these boards. I would also like to add that when someone has a problem, does some searching and doesn't find what they are looking for it may be because you are new to X10 and don't know what to search for exactly. We try to help new members by telling them how and what to search for. That helps you learn and understand how to search these boards.
If you can't find the answer to your problems someone will reply and try to help or direct you to where the answer can be found. In many cases "The Old Guys" as you called them will change and alter their own setups or add to it just to test things and help resolve or create a solution for your problems. In fact there are times they will go out and buy a module just to test it if they don't own one.
So welcome to the boards and if you are having a problem and can't find the answers feel free to start a new thread and ask away.
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I too have not seen a newbies request for help go unanswered!
The biggest problem I have is the lack of information which one supplies when asking for help!
I hate to ask 20 questions before I can supply some type of an answer!
I'd rather read 20 lines of info first! ;) :D ;D
The more infomation one supplies the quicker the correction can be found!
Rev: I understand your frustration as we were all there at one point!
Since I see your having problems with a camera setup check:
x10knowledge base (http://kbase.x10.com/wiki/Main_Page) and look for your cam!
also check the camera section in the forums here as well as do an Advanced Search (http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?action=search;advanced) for the software your having problems with!
As KDR stated: In many cases "The Old Guys" as you called them will change and alter their own setups or add to it just to test things and help resolve or create a solution for your problems. In fact there are times they will go out and buy a module just to test it if they don't own one.]In many cases "The Old Guys" as you called them will change and alter their own setups or add to it just to test things and help resolve or create a solution for your problems. In fact there are times they will go out and buy a module just to test it if they don't own one.
They also have been known to go out a purchase software/plug-ins they don't need just to help!
As one of "The OLD GUYS" (am I really ::) ) it takes some time to get a feel for the way one posts. Please take the time to get to know us!!
It also takes time to understand the way the forum is setup!
Please be assured no matter how it first appears
we are All here to help!(or be helped) ;) :D ;D
:D ;)some of us can't be helped! ;) :D
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Hello everyone I am A newbie to this forum so I thought I could shed some light on this so here goes. I came to the forum and spent alot of time reading and searching before i even signed up to be a member. I wanted to see if the info here was good and what kind of people hung out here before I spent the time to become a member. If it was full of people that were hateful and not helpful I didn't want to be a member. Lucky i found people like pluck, bill and T that helped me through e mail I didn't even have to post. then I became a member.sometimes the amount of info on here can be so much your brain is broke down before you find the help you need. I do think everyone should try to help themself first but I also think we all should be helpful thats why we become a part of the forum to help each other. If we don't help others then what makes us any differant from the newbies. when it came to flags i just could not find the info i need because i did not know what a flag was used for until i e mailed a member that broke it down to me and i am thankful to that member and they know who they are. In closing a newbie will not become a member to anything when they feel they are not wanted. everyone likes to be wanted anywhere they go in life. if a vote is needed lets vote about the ones that only come on here to complain and cry it only makes more info for a new person to have to look through and the Truth is the crying is of no good to anyone. I think it should all be removed from the forum to make room for post that are of some real use!!!
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david3336 I have to agree the post which just bash or whine & complain are of no help to anyone!
BUT I also believe that deleting them isn't the answer!
I've responded to many bashing threads only to be thanked later on for helping!
Most of the crying Bashing posts com out of weeks of frustration!
Deleting the threads just confirms what they were thinking "X10 doesn't give a Dam!" and that every one on here works for them!
What would be nice is a section where these posts could be moved to. Where everyone could still read them if they wished but they would know before hand that it was just ratting! That way the impression that posts on here were censored by X10 could be avoided altogether!
It is a shame that many of the complainers have such a good way with words ! ::)The titles sometimes draw one in! ;) :D ;D
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T you are so right I never thought about it that way but they should be moved so they are in a place where you can choose to read them and dont have to read through them to find what you need.
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Sounds like you all agree that each post should be handled on a case by case basis based on the information and effort the poster appears to put forth. I agree, but would just like to add that I am a moderator on a car forum, it's a fairly busy forum and we get our share of newbies asking the same question over and over again. Questions that could have been answered by checking our FAQ/Howto, stickies, or searching. I personally can't stand when the only reply they get is a link to the search function or a smart ass remark to go use the search. While it can be frustrating I always try to politely link them to the proper thread or FAQ/Howto with an explanation of where these are located and how to use them along with requesting that they check these area's first before posting. Most of them are coming for help and are frustrated already, stonewalling them only serves to further frustrate them an produce an unfriendly environment for everyone. We also have to keep in mind that not everyone is familiarly with online forums, and they don't know what stickies or FAQ/Howto's are or where they are located.
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I am a newbie and sometimes when reading the posts i get more confused with the jumping back and forth what i think would be could is if someone would come up with a post area in which only the pros could post the answers or the solutions that work with as much information including screen shots and detailed step by step instructions on it as if explaining how to do something for a child. This area would be only for posts of known to work solutions to problems that have been asked in other posts almost like a frequently asked questions area with the detail on how to solve a problem and then if a newbie or anyone can not find the answer in any of the posts from this area then they can go to one of the other areas and then post there question or what they need. Possibly maybe a web page could be made that only the pros can access and then put the answers there and then if the answer is not on that web page then come to the forum and ask the questions. If some one asks a question that there is already an answer for then all that is needed is post the link to the answer or if there is not an answer but one is discovered then it can be added to the other page. Once i learn the system i will be willing to share my ansewers or solutions for who ever needs it and as often as it is needed. ;D ;D ;D :o :D ;) :) :-X ::)
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paulnoel12
Welcome aboard!
There is such a place for newbies to find answers! X10 knowledge base (wiki) (http://kbase.x10.com/wiki/Main_Page)
Also check some of the threads started by TakeTheActive like :
Topic: TTA's X10 Troubleshooting Tips Thread [Updated: 2006/11/18] (Read 3621 times) (http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=9899.0)
And my post:
Topic: Having X10 AHP Problems? Please Read This First! (Read 12055 times) (http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=7951.0)
Most questions asked here have been answered 10 fold just do an advanced search for something a simple as a phase coupler and see the resulting posts! ;) :D ;D
The simple fact is most new users want a quick answer and don't want to search or read! ::)
Now there are some that do take the time "they are the ones with stable systems!" ;) :D ;D
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I'd like to answer the question with another question: Why doesn't X10 take the brainpower and real-world experience of the top contributors here and provide a USEFUL manual with their products? Wouldn't it be great to get your AHP bundle and find some great, clever Smart Macro examples included, or a FAQ pointing out the best way to trouble-shoot common problems?
Can you imagine buying a SONY HDTV, not getting a good picture, going to the SONY web site and then getting help from other SONY users, but not SONY staff??? X10 is getting a free ride from you great people. I'm amazed they don't send the "top guns" here regular free product samples, T-shirts and other goodies!
By the way, I live in the Seattle area, and I'll bet that if I took a $50 AHP starter kit to the average house, and randomly set up the CM15A and tried to automate a lamp two rooms away, it would probably work less than 30% of the time. Between noise, phase coupling issues, and lousy RF reception on an unmodified CM15A, the average new user doesn't stand a chance. I love my X10 stuff, and now that I have invested a lot of time, effort, and money into it, I have a super-cool and reliable setup. But X10 is still geared for interested hobbyists, not for the average Joe or Josephine. After all, I didn't have to learn about radio transmission to work my AM/FM clock radio, and I didn't even have to learn about the complexities of internal combustion to drive a car! But I certainly had to learn about X10's transmission scheme, noise and noise filters, and phase coupling alternatives before I could get my system to work at all. AND I had to void my CM15A's warranty in order to get RF reception throughout my entire house!
Rob
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What does it matter how long someone has searched or whether they are a newbie? When someone needs help, thay ask and if someone chooses to reply and help, how does that harm you in any way? All our lives we are taught, if we don't know something ask. If we need help ask. Now you feel there is something wrong with someone asking for help, just because they haven't met some standard? What next, we decide how long they are required to search? What avenues they use? I am a newbie, if I need help I will ask. Maybe I don't have time to spend reading a thousand posts to find a question I have, that was already asked and answered. Again, how does any of this harm you? If you don't want to read their question or help, fine, someone else will most likely.
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Welcome to the forum robster and teb2007!
I agree with BOTH of you!
X10 needs to built a tutoral Web Page, that teaches the X10 basics! It could even serve as an "entry" for NON-registered users.
A nice intro to X10 (maybe with some flash graphics), could save newbies both time and frustration (and support phone calls). Instead of reading a thousand posts trying to "extract" a knowledge base here.
The forum could then function more for finding creative solutions to unique problems. And as a depository of information for those of us that ENJOY reading and increasing our knowledge of X10.
X10 staff does read this .....right?
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Finally going to reply to this post after disregarding it for many months.Newbie = new to x-10 not dooffus or lazy.
Being a newbie to this forum myself although have been reading posts for months before signing up ,all the info within this forum is a lifesaver and a way to keep newbies from throwing x-10 out the door through frustration.
Guys like puck,tuiceman and so many others bring not only information,tips,mods and so on but also show(from their answers to take the active) that they truly understand why forums as these are created and that problems always have solutions if you're willing to listen to advice from others(experienced members) who have encountered similar problems before younewbies like myself.
Read these posts for hours day in day out and 99% of the time don't log in unless to respond or help someone as i have been helped in the past or to answer strange posts like the one here from "take the active" who for whatever reason seems to have had a bad day when he posted this "SURVEY".
Like many wise members have replied to him and quite frankly life is the same way.If you want to help then do it simply out of the kindness of your heart and out of courtesy to your fellow x-10 user and if you don't want to help ..that is your prerogative and your advice on these forums (constructive) are appreciated but please don't complain about it!It is a waste of your time and space on this forum as well as insulting to newbies like myself who yes sir work very hard at getting x-10 working after reading hours of tips from here without logging themselves on.And so what if someone only logs on once a year.Maybe he only had that problem(lucky him) to fix.
And please all this said with no disrespect intended to anyone especially take the active.
teez67f
P.S.By the way FYI take the active not only do i read and work hard in this forum but also go to cocoontech and accessha forums(which i never log into nor am member of) as I'm sure many others here do on a regular basis.